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I would guess it's better to know what they are up to, instead of let it roam wild...

We're doing the same thing.
 
ML has been a sponsor for over a month now. What I find strange is ML sponsors Audiogon but has disclaimer on it saying you should not buy any ML product from Audiogon because it has no warranty?
 
they are trying to possibly redirect the customers.
 
ML has been a sponsor for over a month now. What I find strange is ML sponsors Audiogon but has disclaimer on it saying you should not buy any ML product from Audiogon because it has no warranty?

I think they mean new product, the JB Audio Pimp in particular....

Used is fine, as it doesn't have a warranty.
 
From a business perspective, every manufacturer would like to lease their products and avoid the second hand market. This causes bad trade offs with distribution, and so dealers pop up.

However, all is not bad news. ML has great quality speakers and service support. Their speakers last for years and there are thousands out there. Additionally, there is a moderate revenue stream for panels. Quality service also makes a great impression on the customer and builds good will. How many people hit this site? It's a moderate price to pay and is much more effective than advertising. Nothing beats positive w.o.m.

What happens economically is that the price of the new products are raised to compensate for the used market. Both ML and dealers make higher margins on fewer new products that are sold. There is no free lunch. You squeeze a balloon in one place, and it expands in another place. Imagine how much lower prices for cars, textbooks, and speakers would be if everything was leased?

Also, models are released more frequently with just minor improvements that are marketed as the end of be all. Three years later...

Ultimately, why not be where many of the customers are? As the customers experience the great sound and service, and move up the chain, they can buy new. Sounds like a great business move.
 
I think we should go over there and encourage people to bring their discussions here to MartinLoganOwners forum. It's not that I see them as competition, but it's just better for everyone if discussions can stay here where they're better moderated and organized (and better likeliness of knowledgeable members).
 
I think we should go over there and encourage people to bring their discussions here to MartinLoganOwners forum. It's not that I see them as competition, but it's just better for everyone if discussions can stay here where they're better moderated and organized (and better likeliness of knowledgeable members).

agreed. why would logan not recommend us voluntarily?
 
I think we should go over there and encourage people to bring their discussions here to MartinLoganOwners forum. It's not that I see them as competition, but it's just better for everyone if discussions can stay here where they're better moderated and organized (and better likeliness of knowledgeable members).

agreed. why would logan not recommend us voluntarily?

Maybe the Audiogon one is something over which they covertly exercise control?

I don't think anyone exercises much control over on the Audiogon forums, least of all Martin Logan. And, although I think they appreciate what we provide here, there is an arm's length distance that is kept between us and that is necessary for the actual and perceived independence of this forum. We don't need them recommending us to anyone, because we don't want to be perceived as being controlled by them. We are an independent site and want to remain that way.

Finally, I don't see any big deal with having ML discussions on Audiogon. So what? The more places people can get together to discuss their favorite speakers, the better. And Audiogon attracts a huge number of audiophiles discussing just about every product made, so why not ML? If anyone is seriously interested in these speakers and intent on learning more about them, they will discover our forum easily enough.
 
Hello,
It is somewhat disconcerting to see Jim Power answering posts there considering how established this forum is. Given the enthusiasm and positive attitude of the overwhelmingly vast majority of the posts here, it is strange that they have zero presence here. If for no other reason than the number of posters and customers. And the fact that there are not too many Preface/Dynamo owners here. That is the vast majority of posters here are owners of the ESL Series.
ML
 
Hello,
It is somewhat disconcerting to see Jim Power answering posts there considering how established this forum is.
Maybe he does not want to preach to the converted here, but is hoping to get converts over there ? ;)

BTW I have a lot of respect for the man.
 
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/sponsors.pl

When did this happen? Note there is also an owner's forum.

I wonder what ML's thinking behind this is/was?

Is it just me?.....hitting the "owners club" link brings me to a list of discussion threads with the latest response being on 5-22-09. Unless I'm not going to the right place it does not seem like there's much competition there.....
 
Ahem. Isn't that just a little pretentious, Rich?

How so, Justin? Tomdac owns and operates the site personally, and has stated this as his own opinion in the past. I am sure if I am misrepresenting his feelings on that subject, he will step in and correct me. But my understanding from previous conversations with him and discussions on this board, is that he wants to remain completely independent of ML corporate so there is no question regarding whether they exert control over the content on this site.
 
It's just the way you expressed it, Rich. The collective use of "we", when in fact it is you doing the talking/preaching about MLOC ethics.

Whilst I can't disagree with anything in your retort, or say I wasn't aware of any of it, it is Tom's site.

I think Chris saw it too - hence his use of the sarcasm emoticon.

Hope you see my point, at least to some extent.

Anyway - still no system post? I dunno...:D
 
Is it just me?.....hitting the "owners club" link brings me to a list of discussion threads with the latest response being on 5-22-09. Unless I'm not going to the right place it does not seem like there's much competition there.....

Yeah, the forum looks pretty dead. I raised the thread because I was interested in why ML had sponsored Audiogon - not because of the perceived threat of an alternative forum.

As Rich pointed out, true ML worshippers will find this place anyway. They may not be loud mouthed enough to post, like us, but this place is a valuable resource for anyone who can use a search facility... dodgy though it may be.
 
It's just the way you expressed it, Rich. The collective use of "we", when in fact it is you doing the talking/preaching about MLOC ethics.

I do get your point, Justin. And I'm sure you understand that I don't have time to explain every detail of every thought in every post. It was just easier to say "we" in referring to the forum and trying to explain Tom's thinking on it than to reference every previous discussion on the subject.
 
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