new CLS ii owner

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MLFAN

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Hi, Guys,

I am getting more familiar with MLC since I purchased a new pair of Purity last summer. Just love them, pairing with my Pioneer SC-07 's line out, to a new ML fan, it was a day and night feeling vs using my old speaker system.

I have been reading a lot about ML speakers, and finally by chance, bought a pair of CLS ii used last week, and I really dont know why I bought them. :ROFL:May be one day i can use them as a door panel in my house:. Just not sure if my SC-07 will drive them nicely. Here are my concerns :

Heard about CLS loves lot of current, what kind of Amps you guys will suggest using.

Using Pioneer SC-07 to drive, without a Sub, they are light on Bass or none. and must turn up to almost 2/3 of the volume to get a better soundstage.

Does CLS ii need to be paired with a Sub in order to feel the bass?

Do you think the Pioneer SC-07 has enough power to drive them ?

Any suggestions? Thank you !
 
No receivers with CLS, power amps only; preferably pure Class A, preferably big. To quote every review of the speaker it will expose bad or OK electronics and make good ones shine.
 
Rvega003 said:
No receivers with CLS, power amps only; preferably pure Class A, preferably big. To quote every review of the speaker it will expose bad or OK electronics and make good ones shine.
Click to expand...

Great advice. CLS will need maximum set up time. Stands will make or break that speaker. They need them. The placement and room set up is next. They are magic when done right !
 
Thank you, guys, at least from now on, i am going to hunt for a big one. what will you be suggesting a good combination, Pre + Power. but not so expensive. I will use them for music.

My main concern is how to improve the CLS's lower end. How low they can produce without pairing a sub. Or CLS was made to be used without a sub.

thank you all .
 
I have heard the CLS many times over the last 20 years or so. For listening to 2 channel music it is my opinion that you will be much better off without a sub. If you are used to listening to dynamic woofers you will probably think them bass shy. they are not nor are they the best choice for movies, you have great speakers, get the best amplification you can and you will be happy for a long time.

The devil is in the details pay attention to setup also the stands are mandatory.

My System: http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169
 
great advice from all..

why not bring your CLS's over to my house. We'll plug them into my Pass X250 and see how they sound!! :devil:
 
be careful where you tread Tom well set up CLS's just might have you looking at your summits a little cross eyed.
 
congratulations and expect you decoder ring and secret CLS handshake instructions in the mail :)
 
TomDac said:
great advice from all..

why not bring your CLS's over to my house. We'll plug them into my Pass X250 and see how they sound!! :devil:
Click to expand...


That's a good idea, Tom. I will let you know when i am ready to do so. We are not too far away from each other anyway. i am getting high now... :rocker:
 
Kenscollick said:
I have heard the CLS many times over the last 20 years or so. For listening to 2 channel music it is my opinion that you will be much better off without a sub. If you are used to listening to dynamic woofers you will probably think them bass shy. they are not nor are they the best choice for movies, you have great speakers, get the best amplification you can and you will be happy for a long time.

The devil is in the details pay attention to setup also the stands are mandatory.

My System: http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169
Click to expand...


Thank you for your advice, Ken. I finally realized that i am no regretted to spend my money and happy to be a fan of this professional adviser teams.

I don't use a sub very often. May be i am not yet getting used to listen to a panel without a box enclosure. I guess i will find a way and live with them at least for the next 10 years.

Pat
 
I have CLSIIz's and do not currently have my sub connected in the system. Mainly because I don't have a second pair of RCA outputs from my CD player and using an integrated tube amp at the moment. However, they are currently setup in my bedroom which naturally handles bass well and these speakers surprise me with the quality of bass that I do hear with certain music. The bass does not go down low but the bass is does put out is very well integrated with the panels because of course it is coming from the panels.

I've also found my Descent i sub integrates very well with the CLS speakers and I've been very satisfied with that combination. I'll need to move some gear around this weekend so I can bring the sub back into the system and enhance my 2 -channel listening.

They do work well with plenty of current due to their electrostatic design but be sure to understand that looking at the wattage rating as the only spec to rate an amps power can be misleading. It is the current that seems to matter the most and this can be deceiving when comparing the wattage power of a tube amp to a solid state amp. A well made tube amp with high current power can be a synergistic match with CLS.

Your receiver will play sound through the CLS and it will probably sound good compared to what you had before but I doubt you'll ever hear what these speakers are really capable of until you provide them with some fine upstream components and a robust amplifier. It's possible your receiver may be straining under the load that the CLS demands and could damage it over time. That's been my experience with earlier generation ML electrostats and the older receivers. Not sure if that's still an issue.

Congratulations on your CLS and welcome to the club. It's a great speaker and can sound magical when given the proper care (setup) and feeding (power and source).
 
Craig said:
I have CLSIIz's and do not currently have my sub connected in the system. Mainly because I don't have a second pair of RCA outputs from my CD player and using an integrated tube amp at the moment. However, they are currently setup in my bedroom which naturally handles bass well and these speakers surprise me with the quality of bass that I do hear with certain music. The bass does not go down low but the bass is does put out is very well integrated with the panels because of course it is coming from the panels.

I've also found my Descent i sub integrates very well with the CLS speakers and I've been very satisfied with that combination. I'll need to move some gear around this weekend so I can bring the sub back into the system and enhance my 2 -channel listening.

They do work well with plenty of current due to their electrostatic design but be sure to understand that looking at the wattage rating as the only spec to rate an amps power can be misleading. It is the current that seems to matter the most and this can be deceiving when comparing the wattage power of a tube amp to a solid state amp. A well made tube amp with high current power can be a synergistic match with CLS.

Your receiver will play sound through the CLS and it will probably sound good compared to what you had before but I doubt you'll ever hear what these speakers are really capable of until you provide them with some fine upstream components and a robust amplifier. It's possible your receiver may be straining under the load that the CLS demands and could damage it over time. That's been my experience with earlier generation ML electrostats and the older receivers. Not sure if that's still an issue.

Congratulations on your CLS and welcome to the club. It's a great speaker and can sound magical when given the proper care (setup) and feeding (power and source).
Click to expand...


Thanks, Craig, did you mean that since i over volumed up my receiver could damage the CLS' over time.

That saying, a lower wattage with higher current Amp would be fine with CLS, what minimum wattage power amp is good to drive, any recommendations ?
 
MLFAN said:
Thanks, Craig, did you mean that since i over volumed up my receiver could damage the CLS' over time.

That saying, a lower wattage with higher current Amp would be fine with CLS, what minimum wattage power amp is good to drive, any recommendations ?
Click to expand...

MLFan,
I think Craig is warning that the low impedance load from the CLS on your receiver could and probably would damage it. Craig is also correct concerning any good high current tube or solid state amplifier will drive the CLS. The cls is a very analytical speaker and it is very easy to discern the difference between components with this speaker. I would recommend auditioning multiple amps in the system to to find the best match for your own personal listening preferences, there is no one best amp for the CLS.
Congrats on a great purchase that will give you much listening pleasure!
 
I used a couple of Sony ES receivers to power my first ML speakers (Ascents) and they worked for a few months but later broke down. After the third repair on the receiver I upgraded to more substantial amps and had no problems since. I don't know for sure but I suspect the receiver couldn't handle the load imposed by the speakers.

Tube amps typically fare well with MLs inspite of their wattage usually being lower than comparable Solid State amps. My suggestion is to look beyond merely the wattage rating of the amp but also consider the current output of the amp to get a more accurate idea of it's ability to drive the CLS.
 
Last edited:
mosttoysrk said:
MLFan,
I think Craig is warning that the low impedance load from the CLS on your receiver could and probably would damage it. Craig is also correct concerning any good high current tube or solid state amplifier will drive the CLS. The cls is a very analytical speaker and it is very easy to discern the difference between components with this speaker. I would recommend auditioning multiple amps in the system to to find the best match for your own personal listening preferences, there is no one best amp for the CLS.
Congrats on a great purchase that will give you much listening pleasure!
Click to expand...

Thank you, I think now i should start to shop for a good amp this summer. Do you think McIntosh is good for those, how about MC275 ?
 
Craig said:
I used a couple of Sony ES receivers to power my first ML speakers (Ascents) and they worked for a few months but later broke down. After the third repair on the receiver I upgraded to more substantial amps and had no problems since. I don't know for sure but I suspect the receiver couldn't handle the load imposed by the speakers.

Tube amps typically fare well with MLs inspite of their wattage usually being lower than comparable Solid State amps. My suggestion is to look beyond merely the wattage rating of the amp but also consider the current output of the amp to get a more accurate idea of it's ability to drive the CLS.
Click to expand...

Craig, Thank you for your great info. What are you using to drive your speakers ? How to tell if one amp has high current output.

I guess from now on, i better off stop pairing my Pioneer SC-07 with the CLS.

Or simply put, Anyone here has CLS who wants to tell me what Power amps are currently using with the CLS, that will save my shopping time. Any one is suggesting McIntosh ? thank you all..
 
Last edited:
MLFAN,
Since you are in S.F or really close, I would audition serval types of amps. If you look some of the CLS threads here you will see several different amps. Some are solid state and some are tube. It also depends on everything else in the chain which will make up "your" sound. Some say a tube preamp with a SS amp is the best of both worlds. I agree to a point. I have had both and at the moment, I prefer tubes but then again the amp I want I can not afford. LOL

It also depends on the type of music you play (to a point) and how loud you play it. I think you find that the CLS will just get louder and be just more of the same sound at a lower volume. I am driving my CLS's with 70 watts (tubes wattage)but then again I do not play it loud since I sit 9 feet from each speaker.

I would say take your time and choose wisely. Ask for more advice and you will get a lot of opinions. Ulimately it is your decision. We are all her to help. Once you get situated then look at accessories to improve the overall sound but first start with a good foundation. :)

Jeff:cool:
 
Jeff Zaret said:
Some say a tube preamp with a SS amp is the best of both worlds. I agree to a point. I have had both and at the moment, I prefer tubes but then again the amp I want I can not afford.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and now Jeff is looking at a non-tube power amp. But like Jeff said, he is very happy with his CJ Tube Amp.

But Jeff also realizes that both (SS/Tube) can perform admirably for the task at hand. Just depends on how it matches up (synergy) to the rest of his rig.

I would say take your time and choose wisely. Ask for more advice and you will get a lot of opinions. Ultimately it is your decision. We are all her to help. Once you get situated then look at accessories to improve the overall sound but first start with a good foundation.
Click to expand...
You will get as many different amp recommendations as you will replies. There are many great products out there to consider for your CLS. The CLS is a completely different speaker than anything else in the ML lineup (except of course the CLX). The full range panel presents a whole new beast for an amp to drive and what may sound great on the hybrid models may not cut it on the CLS.

Unfortunately or fortunately (as the hunt is half the fun) you will need to get your hands on as many amps as you can in your budget range and hopefully be able to audition them at home. Lugging around the CLS to dealers is much harder than bringing home an amp. LOL
 
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