Summit X smoother than the Spire or just bigger sound?

Rich said:

My guess is that folks who are experiencing listening fatigue with Logans have no room treatments, have the volume set too loud for the room, are listening to poor recordings, have one or more sub-par components in the equipment chain, or some combination of the above factors.

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Hm.. difficult one. What exactly is listener fatigue? I'd argue that all music systems are to some extent fatiguing... especially really high resolution ones played back at good volume levels. Why? Because they demand attention and concentration - not the kind associated with day-to-day work, but the "wow - can't ignore that - it sounds amazing" kind of way.

Isn't the point of fatigue simply when you have had enough of listening to the music, and you switch it off? Or is that simply a mood thing? Sometimes, it's surely just a combination of both.

There's no doubt that anything that you find really annoying vastly shortens the amount of time you'll listen to it, though.

Typically, when I have a music session - usually 2-3 times a week, I'm at it for 4-5 hours a time, with virtually no breaks. I use it as a stress relief activity to some extent, I'm sure, as a lot of others do.

User211 said:

Hm.. difficult one. What exactly is listener fatigue? I'd argue that all music systems are to some extent fatiguing... especially really high resolution ones played back at good volume levels. Why? Because they demand attention and concentration - not the kind associated with day-to-day work, but the "wow - can't ignore that - it sounds amazing" kind of way.

Isn't the point of fatigue simply when you have had enough of listening to the music, and you switch it off? Or is that simply a mood thing? Sometimes, it's surely just a combination of both.

There's no doubt that anything that you find really annoying vastly shortens the amount of time you'll listen to it, though.

Typically, when I have a music session - usually 2-3 times a week, I'm at it for 4-5 hours a time, with virtually no breaks. I use it as a stress relief activity to some extent, I'm sure, as a lot of others do.

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Justin, you're not qualified to enter this discussion. You have no idea what listening fatigue is. You are a tube man! :ROFL:

Seriously, though. Try one of your 4-5 hour listening sessions driving your Logans hard with a cheap 100 watt SS receiver and listening to a highly compressed CD. Then you will understand what listening fatigue really is.

User211 said:

Hm.. difficult one. What exactly is listener fatigue?

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The rule of thumb I used for recognizing fatigue is when I feel I have had enough listening to music AND feel relief AFTER I switch it off.

Spike

Interesting morph. Listening fatigue for me is when somebody comes over to listen and won't shut up...

Satch said:

Interesting morph. Listening fatigue for me is when somebody comes over to listen and won't shut up...

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Just too funny!

Spike said:

The rule of thumb I used for recognizing fatigue is when I feel I have had enough listening to music AND feel relief AFTER I switch it off.

Spike

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How about if you feel relief after switching to a different speaker?

Mantana said:

How about if you feel relief after switching to a different speaker?

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Then it would be time to give up on the first speaker.

I've been following your trials and tribulations with ML and I have come to a conclusion. ML may not be the speaker for you. There is nothing wrong with that but it seems like your beating your head against the wall over this.

Is there some particular reason your so fixed on the ML that your willing to try many different components?

Gordon

Gordon,

Totally agreed.

I, for one, am getting very tired of Mantana's apparently self-serving rant.

GG

all I know is that since I have switched to an analog system any detectable "fatigue" has dropped to zero. the only analogy that I can make is you know when you where a stiff pair of jeans all day long and then come home and put some sweat pants on and its like man I feel comfortable know! that's the feeling I have since I switched to an analog source I think your source has a lot to do with your fatigue

Gordon said:

Then it would be time to give up on the first speaker.

I've been following your trials and tribulations with ML and I have come to a conclusion. ML may not be the speaker for you. There is nothing wrong with that but it seems like your beating your head against the wall over this.

Is there some particular reason your so fixed on the ML that your willing to try many different components?

Gordon

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Well, i do like them a lot for HT and i continue to hope i can
fine tune them for 2 channel music with the right equipment.
I probably shouldn't be harping on this anymore, so i'll drop it.
If i find 2 channel nirvana, i'll submit a post about it.

Hi Mantana,
Sorry to hear about the problem you've been having. I may be able to offer some encouragement on 2 fronts : I agree with other contributors that room acoustics can be a primary culprit and cause excessive high frequency emphasis. Without going to the trouble of expensive room treatments I simply fine tune the decor at each session to tune it out. Even if a cushion or 2 happen to be a couple of centimetres off is usually sufficient to cause sibilants to sound exaggerated. Sometimes I over-compensate and end up with a sound balance which is a fraction too dull and "rolled off". A permanent solution to room problems is preferable but sadly this is a shared living space)

...........The i-7 is an amplifier I've been using with my Vantages for 2-3 years now. You will find it exceptionally smooth and fatigue free (almost tube-like) with Stats. A useful trick which your friend may or may not be aware of is to switch off the display on the i-7.(Press and hold the button just below the standby button) Once you are up and running with the new amp, try comparing it for yourself. With display on there is an almost indefinable "edginess" to sibilants. Deactivated, the music is seamlessly natural..............
It's not that the i-7 isn't excellent with the display on - because most people run it this way anyway......
Hope this is helpful :music:........................Victor.

i'm still running with the MF A5, but that's interesting about turning
off the display. Wonder if that is specific to the Sim or could affect
other amps.

The Audyssey Sound Equalizer is a standalone unit. Has anyone tried it?

Mantana said:

Well, i do like them a lot for HT and i continue to hope i can
fine tune them for 2 channel music with the right equipment.
I probably shouldn't be harping on this anymore, so i'll drop it.
If i find 2 channel nirvana, i'll submit a post about it.

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Please stop harping (trolling?) and drop it.

It's fairly common knowledge that display lights affect sound.

I hate to say this but if you own spires or summit X's have decent room acoustics and upstream equipment and you think you hear some kind of harshness and cannot enjoy the music or whatever you need some professional help because "better" equipment or more tunning is not going to solve your issues.just chill and enjoy your nice equipment man

I leave the displays off also on both my Simaudio Supernova and P-7 preamp.The display will function in the off mode for about 5 seconds if the volume is changed or you change a song on a sim cd player by the remote. Then it will shut back off.

Gordon Gray said:

Please stop harping (trolling?) and drop it.

It's fairly common knowledge that display lights affect sound.

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screw u G Gray....i only responded to another's comments and
no, i didn't know about display lights affecting the sound. Not
all of us are as "enlightened" as you.

Mantana said:

i'm still running with the MF A5, but that's interesting about turning
off the display. Wonder if that is specific to the Sim or could affect
other amps.

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Hi Mantana,
Yes....like Gordon says it is a common phenomenon, but perhaps not as common knowledge as he thought. Audiophiles like ourselves are geeks who are constantly discovering such things
Rather than the display itself, it may be the oscillator behind it doing the strobing which causes the interference. For this reason I suspect it's not enough to simply turn out out the lights but de-activate that circuit completely? I've long since ceased to be surprised by strange phenomena in hifi ! Hope things improve in your listening environment soon.
Kind regards...................Victor.

...By way of illustration, take a look at the Plinius Coru Phono stage. The casework is now garnished with uniformly coloured LEDs in the manner of a Christmas tree! . (Reminiscent of the Coca Cola "Holidays are Comin' " Ad ) Although the circuit is sensitive, Plinius have obviously reasoned that as long as the LEDs are DC operated there should be no problem.

cheers Victor...thanks for the insight....