Summit X smoother than the Spire or just bigger sound?

from G. Gray:

"If I am understanding you correctly per the above, you adjust the 50hz knob -5 to -10 db when you are listening to two channel. There's no reason why you should have such a disparity between the two (HT and two channel) listening experiences.

Out of curiousity, how do you decide what level of attenuation is best and how do you expect to reach some consistent conclusion (shrillness, etc) given the variability of those settings?

If that is the case, I don't know what to say. I can make absolutely miniscule adjustments on my Summit bass x-over and can clearly hear the impact, for better or worse.

Good luck with your issue but based on what you've said, I don't believe the issue is with the ML's. "
___________________________________________

it doesn't wear me down as fast on music when i reduce
the bass, but thru HT, i like it in the flat position. It's definitely
the speakers or their interaction with my other components. It's
what i hear and it's frustrating, but maybe i'll just use
them for HT. I prefer to have just one pair of speakers for HT
and 2 channel, but since i have 2 sets of speakers, i might as
well use them. I'll need another amp. Takes up a lot
of real estate though.

Elevation ?

Not long ago I read an ad on Audiogon for a pair of Quad 2805 speakers. The seller had just moved to the mountains of Colorado, he had his Quads for about six months pior to moving and were still under warranty.
Right after he moved he blew out both speaker panels. The Quad repair facility told him it was the high elevation and thin air. I guess he was still trying to achieve the same DB level he was accustom to listen, but now had to drive the speakers harder to reach that level.

I notice you also live in Colorado...might this elevation also effect your ESL Spires?...something to ponder when your on a mountain top

i don't listen to my music that loud...usually i have the volume control
at 9:00 clock, rarely at 10:00. One quarter volume is loud enough
for me on most music unless it's one of those real quiet recordings.

Pointing out the obvious...

Mantana said:

The MF integrated is SS, the CD player has tubes. My ears may just be more sensitive to hi frequencies and the Logans may need really fine tuning with the associated electronics. I really like them in home theater where the clarity and quickness really excels...not so crazy for 2 channel though. I don't experience the fatigue in HT since a lot coming
across is dialog, rather than music, but i must say they're fantastic HT speakers. I'm thinking of buying a separate amp for 2 channel audio with my Montanas and using the MF A5 for 2 channel HT with the Spires.

Click to expand...

I'm surprised that nobody pointed out the (lack of) synergy between MF amplification and Logans. In my experience, I wanted to like MF but always found them to be on the sterile and harsh side on the Logans. It may be that your Spires are exposing the incompatibility of MF amplifiers while other speakers are more forgiving in this regards. If you're thinking of getting a separate amplifier, why not try to match that amp with the Spires? There are LOTS of choices to match with your preference.

Good luck
Spike

you might be right...this may be the case, however when i asked
Martin Logan about MF compatibility, they said they've had good
results. Maybe they have listened with MF's tube gear...my amp
is solid state and pretty lively if you ask me. I've only tried
one other amp, a Butler, but i thought the bass was a little
muddy. As stated, I've thought about buying the Simaudo
I7 integrated, which Jeff at ToneAudio likes, but the other guy
i referenced above said he had the same fatigue issues with the
Sim and Spires. I'd hate to spend 4k and find it's not much
better than the MF. I just need to get off my ass and try
a few different amps.

Spike said:

I'm surprised that nobody pointed out the (lack of) synergy between MF amplification and Logans. In my experience, I wanted to like MF but always found them to be on the sterile and harsh side on the Logans. It may be that your Spires are exposing the incompatibility of MF amplifiers while other speakers are more forgiving in this regards. If you're thinking of getting a separate amplifier, why not try to match that amp with the Spires? There are LOTS of choices to match with your preference.

Good luck
Spike

Click to expand...

Therein lies the problem...

Mantana said:

you might be right...this may be the case, however when i asked Martin Logan about MF compatibility, they said they've had good results. Maybe they have listened with MF's tube gear...my amp is solid state and pretty lively if you asked me. I've only tried one other amp, a Butler, but i thought the bass was a little muddy. As stated, I've thought about buying the Simaudo I7 integrated, which Jeff at ToneAudio likes, but the other guy i refernced above said he had the same fatigue issues with the
Sim and Spires. I'd hate to spend 4k and find it's not much better than the MF. I just need to get off my ass and try a few different amps.

Click to expand...

Give the same combination of amps & speakers to 2 different people and you'll get opposing results:

1. ML recommends MF but you and I don't agree.
2. Jeff @ ToneAudio likes Sim I7, but soneone else does not.

And I have not mentioned quite a few lively/heated discussions on this board where I disagreed on the subject of tubes vs solid-states for the Logans. The combination which works for one may not be aligned with your preference and your environment. Please go and audition a few amplifiers with your speakers and trust your ears.

Good Luck
Spike

You may want to look at the Pass Labs X250.5. It mates up with the MLs very well!

Mark Levinson's make ML's sing.

rampage60 said:

You may want to look at the Pass Labs X250.5. It mates up with the MLs very well!

Click to expand...

X2. I love the combo.

GG

...and Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Jeff Rowland, Classe, VTL, Cary Audio, Sunfire, Pass Labs, Sunfire, Audio Analogue, Blue Circle, among others that sound nice with ML too. There are a lot of good gear that you could use in your Spires...trust your ears, happy listening,
Roberto.

robertawillisjr said:

Mark Levinson's make ML's sing.

Click to expand...

Reading that made me happy, with a chunk of luck I will be a proud owner of a pair of No 436 by this time tomorrow.
Seller is a bit flaky thou and has already changed the delivery date a few times because of scheduling conflicts so I'm not holding my breath for it to happen tomorrow either but maybe, just maybe!
Please everyone, cross your collective fingers (or in case of us Swedes, hold your thumbs) so that I can purchase these beasts tomorrow.
You will be repaid with pictures in the forum if you do

Swedish thumb wrestling....now there's a picture worth 1000 words.

well....i just bought a Simaudio I7 on Audiogon from HigherFi...it was
traded in and per the dealer, in excellent shape. It's a couple of
years old...i paid $3100. Hope it's a noticeable upgrade from my
MF A5. Dealer will ship on Monday.... i'll let you know what i think.
I really wanted the silver face... there's a 2008 model for sale
on Agon, but didn't want to fork over another $1000 - $1200.
We'll see....anyone ever bought from higherfi.com ?? Owner
Chris Moon seems like a nice guy.

Seems like you should have asked that question before buying.

Good luck.

Gordon Gray said:

Seems like you should have asked that question before buying.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

1st time i've ever bought used gear on Audiogon. Aside from
reading his customers' feedback and checking his web site
not a hell of a lot i can do. Maybe check his state's BBB....

My experience with buying and selling @ Audiogon over the years has been excellent. Without it this hobby would be much more expensive.

I have never bought from audiogon but I will say this hobby seems to attract a very particular group which seems to make second hand a vary valid option

here's an update from the guy i've referenced on this post
who upgraded to the Summits:

"I think cones and domes are more musical and accurate. The Summit X's use a different crossover which make them more laid back. The guy that bought my Spires sold them after 2 weeks saying they were fatiguing. He preferred the Vantage."

Maybe it's just the Spire and not the amp ???

vantage over the spire ??? that is just downright crazy:wtf:

FISH_MAN said:

vantage over the spire ??? that is just downright crazy:wtf:

Click to expand...

My thoughts entirely (good though the Vantage is)! Perhaps some weird system interaction is making the Spires sound bad? Or maybe they're revealing weaknesses in the source material or earlier in the audio chain. *Shrug*