Factory or aftermarket jumpers for Summits/Spires?

I've been running bi-wired Signal Cable Ultra speaker cables with my Sequel II's and now Summits. But I've bought a pair of Nordost Frey speaker cables, single ended. So, I'm wondering what everyone with Summits or Spires has done about jumpers. The Summit owners manual specifically says bi-wiring is not needed, and 2 posts are there only because most ML owners had older ML speakers and therefore have bi-wired cables already.

What have people done and why?

This has been a major SCREW up on martin logans part in my opinion. they should never have offered double binding post for the powered models such as summit and vantage.what I have done and am looking for a new solution is I use spade terminators on the end of my speaker wire from my amp and then jumper them together using a short run maybe 3" of wire with banana plugs at the end.I could choke whoever made a decision to put dual binding post on my spires.

I think Tomdac has some cool jumpers on his summits maybe he will chime in

Jumpers for my Spires

Like Fishman, I don't understand why there are dual binding posts on Spires. I have replaced the stock jumpers with short cardas wire with banana plugs. I have my Cardas speaker wires, which are spades, going to the top binding posts.

When I changed from the stock jumpers, I noticed an increase in bass definition and articulation. Maybe it was just my imagination...but it sounded real to me.

The reasoning behind the dual posts on the newer models (even though they have powered woofers) is that the customers who used bi-wire cables before (say on an Aerius) would still be able to use the same cables on the Summit or Vantage.

I think Roberto pointed this out to me a ways back.

Tom, if I recall, uses some anti-cable products:

http://www.anticables.com/products.html

Erik

eknuds01 said:

The reasoning behind the dual posts on the newer models (even though they have powered woofers) is that the customers who used bi-wire cables before (say on an Aerius) would still be able to use the same cables on the Summit or Vantage.

I think Roberto pointed this out to me a ways back.

Tom, if I recall, uses some anti-cable products:

http://www.anticables.com/products.html

Erik

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ya but now the Summit X has a single set

Yeah, i'm using the anti-cable jumpers... they look cool, but I can't hear any difference... :music:

Initially, I used the default metal jumpers with my Summits. I didn't really expect jumper cables to make any difference, so was quite surprised by the improved clarity after upgrading to DH Labs Q10 jumpers about 18 mo ago. I recently upgraded to Audience AU24e speaker cables (replacing my Blue Jeans/Belden set), and just received a (used) set of Au24 jumpers (not e) yesterday. I'll compare all my jumpers this weekend using my XTZ Room Analyzer, and see if there's any measurable difference.

eknuds01 said:

The reasoning behind the dual posts on the newer models (even though they have powered woofers) is that the customers who used bi-wire cables before (say on an Aerius) would still be able to use the same cables on the Summit or Vantage.

Click to expand...

And of course ML were not thinking of people like me who use a double run of speaker cable for bi-wiring. So if I bought a set of Spires I could not get rid of one of the pairs of cables, unless of course if I used jumpers.

Looking forward to sleepysurf's measurements, and more importantly, his subjective experience of the differences, if any.

sleepysurf, may I suggest that you do the listening before you do the measuring.

FISH_MAN said:

.what I have done and am looking for a new solution ......

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You could of course open the speakers and solder wires directly across the terminals......but then you would void the warranty. Perhaps ML should allow their dealers to do this and not void the warranty.

Another one of my stupid noob questions; Can I use my AQ single bi-wire, currently running Vistas with Spires?

Satch

Replacement jumpers

I was in a local electronic supply store ( mostly used/end of rolls/recycled) and they had some 20 amp flat copper cable. The legs were parallel to each other and had an adhevise backing to mount to the floor ( think copper ribbon extention cord).
I purchase a foot of the stuff and peeled back the insulation and installed it
on my new Spires, it definitely improved the definition and pitch in the bass,
things just sounded more musical.
They also had flat solid copper straps ~3 printer paper sheets thick, I will have to drill those out ( the ribbon cut with a scissor) and will try them soon.

I like the ribbon better than a Bi wire cable that I also had on hand, and so am using just a single wire (Audioquest).

Satch said:

Another one of my stupid noob questions; Can I use my AQ single bi-wire, currently running Vistas with Spires?

Satch

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Of course you can Satch...between the speaker's connectors there are two metal plates that connects both + and both - together. In other words, woofer's + with panel's + and woofer - with panel -. So, no matter where you connect the wire, both panel and woofer will be connected through this metal plate for each binding post. If you are using bi-wire cable, then take off these plates and make the connections as usual...happy listening,
Roberto.

Thanks Roberto,

I miss Costa Rica and hope to get back there soon. Also want to check out Nicaragua.

Happy listening to you too my friend!

Satch

Wow, a popular post my question engendered. I too am looking forward to hear of any definite improvements with jumper wires vs the factory plates. Anti-cables sound like a good choice, but if there's really no difference.....

sleepysurf said:

I'll compare all my jumpers this weekend using my XTZ Room Analyzer, and see if there's any measurable difference.

Click to expand...

Why not just listen to them, everything can't be measured, or at least correlated with a measurement.

risabet said:

Why not just listen to them, everything can't be measured, or at least correlated with a measurement.

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Hola Risabet...how can you measure the feeling of the musician player?...:bowdown:just kidding, you are right, agreed with you...happy listening,
Roberto.

sleepysurf said:

... I'll compare all my jumpers this weekend using my XTZ Room Analyzer, and see if there's any measurable difference.

Click to expand...

Finally had a chance to run XTZ and compare jumpers. Unfortunately, the variability between consecutive measurements with XTZ is greater than any measurable differences between the jumpers! However, from a pure listening standpoint, I'd rate the DH Labs and Au24 jumpers as roughly equivalent, with both providing a bit cleaner bass vs. the default metal plates. I got a great deal on the Au24 jumpers, so even if they aren't any better sonically than the DH Labs, at least they are a better cosmetic match to my Au24e's speaker cables.

Interesting that some people think ML is capable of designing a fine speaker but not capable of designing so simple a thing as a proper jumper. One would think that......never mind.

I wouldn't say the default metal jumpers are inferior, they just have a slightly different "sonic signature" than some wire jumpers. BTW, when I first got into this hobby, I firmly believed that "wire is wire," and never thought I'd ever invest in higher priced cables. However, as the resolution of my system has improved, I've joined "dark side" of those who believe otherwise. That being said, I still think investing $$ in room acoustic treatments gives the best overall bang for the buck when it comes to system tweaking.

I've lived with my Summits for the last couple of weeks using the factory metal jumpers and new Nordost Frey speaker cables. All I got was improved sound With how great my system sounds now, wire jumpers are way down the list of things I want to change. I'll keep it in mind, but so far so good.