Is there enough LFE (better term?) in audio music to warrant a subwoofer?

Background: We've just moved into a new larger house and I'm dividing my previous single system into two new systems with different purposes:

1. Two channel music enjoyment system in the family room. [two Vistas]

2. 5.1 channel system entertainment system in the upstairs "bonus" room. [two Vignetttes]

I have two ML Dynamo subwoofers. The question is whether I should use them both for the entertainment system (I very much enjoy the immersive LFE effects watching "24", "Alias", and Hollywood movies, etc.), or should I put one on each system?

I guess the nexus of my inquisition is that I don't hear much of anything from the Dynamos when I listen to music. Perhaps I don't have something set up right? (likely) or it's my equipment (low-end Yamaha amp and cheap DVD "CD" player).

I enjoy classical, jazz, new age, and rock if that's important.

Pete
Wesley Chapel, NC

I think your answer will depend on the settings in your receiver, size of your room and your room's acoustic characteristics. I find that a sub is effective in my particular 2 channel setup. But I also find that the sound coming from a sub is much more prominent in a home theater because Low Frequency Effects are a big part of the HT sound reproduction.

You should look into the settings of your processor when it's used in the music, stereo or 2 channel mode. It probably isn't putting out the correct lower freqs to your sub when used for music. This is probably needed to compensate for what you consider to be low-end equipment not having sufficient power to take full advantage of what your Vistas are capable of in the bass department.

The easiest way to find out is to try the Dynamos and Vistas in your new room. Then you'll know what your missing with and without a sub there.

Just my 2 cents.

I run a sub with my setup both in two channel and HT. The sub is not fed directly from the AV receiver however. I use the sub's internal xover off the low port(s) of my electronic crossover.

I find in crossing at 80 hz that there is a lot of program material in 2 channel that excites the sub. The major benefit is that material below 80 hz going to the sub and not to the woofers of the Prodigies makes the material between 80 hz and the 250 hz crossover to the panel much lower in distortion.

Bottom line: keep the low stuff out of your two channel speakers and everything else further up in frequency sounds much better, but don't rely on the LFE port on the receiver.

lhcope nailed it: the big benefit is the improved performance of the main speakers in their mid-bass range.

So for music, just that alone would be worthwhile.

As for how much low bass is in the type of music you mention, I can say, a good bit. It might not be the ‘hit you over the head’ type that movies have, but it’s an important part of the piece (for rock and new age) or part of the sonic signature of the venue (for classical).

My active crossovers happen to have a real nice integrated Real Time Analyzer function, and one of the things I’ve noticed listening to various pieces while watching the RTA light show is just how much low-frequency content there is on many recordings. But often it’s at a level well below the mid-bass and midrange. But remove it (which I can do by just clicking ‘mute’ on the sub channel), and it’s really eye-opening what a difference it makes.

Actually one fun thing I did with a friend who was skeptical a sub would be helpful on music (a big 2 ch-only, tubes and TT guy), was to program a couple of presets into my crossovers (basically a $5K audio computer) and then switch them in to demonstrate what a 40hz roll-off sounds like vs a full-range (my sub is flat to 18hz). Even using orchestral pieces he was surprised, and on solo piano, he was blown away.
He now has a nice Velodyne DD-15 in his setup. He doesn’t even mind that it has DSP

But setup is critical to getting good results. Not only does the sub need to be well integrated with the mains, but room placement and treatments must be considered.

One of the reasons my demos are so effective is that it’s in a room that’s designed and treated for maximum room mode control, so you hear the music (and the sub) not the room.
Most rooms are totally dominated by their room modes and it makes it hard to hear the true performance of a sub or the music. And this is mainly why some prefer less low-frequency output, as it might overpower the rest of the range. Since room modes typically operate up to around 200hz, modal issues should be treated as serious challenges regardless of a sub or not.

Also, looking at the picture in your system, you need to try to space out the speakers in front a bit - they look too close together imo...

Also, if possible, try to remove the component rack from the middle of your speakers and move it to the side to help with imaging. Then work on acoustical treatments behind (most importantly) and side / rear of room. Look in the acoustic section on here - lots of info on wall panels and DIY stuff!

oh, and I love lots of good, clean bass (just bought 2 JL Fathom 113's) - I think you may have something in your receiver set up incorrectly - All of my music has good amounts of bass in it. You will eventually also want to upgrade that Yamaha unit - probabaly the weakest link in your system. Remember ML's CRAVE lots of good clean power!

Enjoy