Fresco vs. Mosaic and why the Montage hate?

I'll go backwards. I haven't heard anyone ever say anything positive about the Montages. They say it is one of the worst speakers ML has ever produced.

I don't recall if I had heard the Mosaics or if it was the Montages, but I heard one of them at Magnolia Hi-Fi years ago and I disliked the sound.

Why the Montage hate?

Anyway, is the Fresco essentially equivalent in sound to the Mosaic? What do you give up with the Fresco? I know the Mosaic's are rated SLIGHTLY better but the array and configuration is the same.

Thoughts?

I just can't get over how ugly the Mosaic and Montage were but I think the new Preface takes the cake for ugliness! ML needs to give up on these 'entry' level speakers. I owned the Mosaic for awhile (or which ever was the nicer of the two) and really didn't mind the sound but they just didn't look all that good, albeit they looked much better than the Preface. My thought was that if I was going to give up space for a floor standing speaker they need to both look very good and perform well. Those speakers are really near the bottom of the food chain for floor standing speakers.

As far as the Frescoi, I think they sound fine and they look great as a compliment to a nice flat panel. We sell a lot of them with Pioneer Elite TV's and Grotto subs.

I can't speak to the Mosaic. I have not heard them. Since they are not shown on the ML product site, are they even offered at this time?

As far as the Frescoe goes, I have heard them and like them, when coupled with a sub.

I almost went for 3 frescoes on the front, with a pair of Vignettes in the rear.

Instead, I am in the process of having built in a new home: Voyage R&L, Passage center, and Helos 100's for rear.

The issue is primarily that I changed from onwall to inwall.

The frescoes sound very good. The Voyage sounds great, if you can handle the higher cost, and handle very large inwalls.

ive got a pair of mosaics for the rear speakers, very good for surround duties

I had a pair of Mosaics for about eight months doing FL & FR duty in my dedicated theater after I spun my Summits out into a 2 channel only system. They were a poor match to the Theater i since they lacked ESL "air", and did not have sufficient dynamic range for theater work IMHO.

Hello,
I think to many, it is hard to imagine a Martin Logan that does not incorporate a ESL panel. For decades, Martin Logan manufactured nothing but ESL speakers.

With the non ESL Design Series, (Mosaic, Montage, etc..) they truly share none of the traditional ML house sound. While judged on their own, they are nice speakers. To many, it is hard to imagine a Martin Logan that is not ESL. Add in the fact they are manufactured in China as opposed to Kansas, it could be argued that these speakers trade on the reputation of the previous speakers.

I own a pair of Montages. For a while, I used them as surrounds. In this application, they did nicely. However, when Tweeter/Sound Advice went out of business, I could not pass up purchasing a pair of Vista's to use as surrounds. The difference is certainly there. It is much more noticeable on multi channel SACD then movies. Especially considering some movies do not have much in surround action.
Cheers,
ML

I just purchased a pair of dealer demo Montages about 3 weeks ago. Without qualification, I can say these are the best speakers I've ever owned. I haven't finished breaking them in yet, but even with that caveat, they are the most articulate speakers I've owned. But hey, my last speakers were from the now-defunct Aurasound - a pair of LST827s with the dipole line source tweeter. With the Montages, the soundstage (especially with my older vinyl) is much more detailed and airy than ever before. Locating the position of instruments is now easy, clear, and distinct. I'm actually buying more music now just to see how the speakers will perform I'm powering them with an Emotiva UPA7 amp.

Based on reading the many posts on this board, I know my position is in the minority. And I did go listen to entry level ESLs from Martin Logan (Puritys, I believe). They did sound great (although they were powered by a receiver, so maybe it wasn't a fair comparison). I can say however, that while I enjoyed the Puritys, at no point did I feel like I was missing out on something with my Montages (I bought a Fresco i to act as by center channel speaker, BTW). I'm really happy with my set-up, and I feel my severe bout with "upgrade-itis" coming to an end.

The biggest downside to owning these speakers is I kind of feel like a "man without a country". For whatever reason, Martin Logan speakers don't seem to be well received by people on other Audio message boards, and Montages aren't really well received in this forum (hence the title of the thread). Oh well, I guess I will just have to console myself by listening to some of the new Vince Guaraldi vinyl I picked up last week...;-)

BTW - I LOVE the way the Montages look. Simple design with clean lines. And they don't take over your room like larger speakers can...

Hello,
Congrats on the acquisition. The Montages are nice speakers and compared to 99.99999999567% of most people's speakers, much nicer. Even the contentious Stereophile review praised their sound.

If the dreaded upgrade bugs comes back, they do make excellent surround speakers. As to other boards feelings towards ML, a decent number of people here post on what is probably the forum you speak. There certainly is a vocal minority of folks who bash ML. Most of them use for ammunition how ML's typically measure. Given these tests are often not done correctly, these measurements were designed for pistionic speakers, etc, it is certainly a loaded argument. Many of those who bash have issues affording ML's (ESL line especially) and much of their venom stems from that.
Grats,
ML

Montage was too much of a compromise. The Mosaics were a better choice as it used dual ATFs for HF and the midrange (or atleast part of that midrange). The Montages only had ATFs for HF reproduction and a conventional cone system for the midrange.

The Mosaics were similar to a conventional, small ML hybrid panel.... except ATFs were used instead of the stat panel. I think this was a better solution for those on a budget rather than to compromise the design even further and get one where a cone is reproducing most of the midrange and below - cones are NOT MLs forte mind you.

Well, I just bought a used pair of Mosaics off Audiogon, I've always been curious how they sound in my house, but they aren't part of my long term plan. After I've demoed them I'm gonna sell them.

Maybe I'll *love* them? Who knows?

I just heard the Prefaces though and was NOT impressed.