apple ipod music on your ML system - Wadia dock or Airport extreme???

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gordonmenninger

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I am trying to incorporate the music on my ipod with my HT system. Currently I have it hooked up with RCA jacks and it sounds ok, but I know that the internal ipod D/A converters are total junk and need to be bypassed for best audio perfomance. I am currently using my Theta Casa Nova processor for music and surround until the new Emotiva processor gets released (if that will ever even happen!).
I have done my research and I think I have 2 options:
1.) Buy the Wadia ipod dock For $379
2.) Buy apple airport or airport extreme

The Wadia is the simple but a bit more expensive solution that I kind of like. They are the only company right now that has the dock to let you bypass Apple's el cheapo converters and send a pure digital stream to your (better) D/A converter. I like the simplicity of this..

I read somewhere else on here that people are using their Apple airport and somehow being able to access the digital unconverted signal that way as well. Can anyone elaborate on how it is done.

I do however in the end NOT want to have to play my music off one off my computers to hear them over my ML system. I had an HTPC system before and I had enough of all that hassle! No I do not have an iphone or ipod touch to control it remotely.

what do you guys suggest?

thanks gordon
 
I am trying to incorporate the music on my ipod with my HT system. Currently I have it hooked up with RCA jacks and it sounds ok, but I know that the internal ipod D/A converters are total junk and need to be bypassed for best audio perfomance. I am currently using my Theta Casa Nova processor for music and surround until the new Emotiva processor gets released (if that will ever even happen!).
I have done my research and I think I have 2 options:
1.) Buy the Wadia ipod dock For $379
2.) Buy apple airport or airport extreme

The Wadia is the simple but a bit more expensive solution that I kind of like. They are the only company right now that has the dock to let you bypass Apple's el cheapo converters and send a pure digital stream to your (better) D/A converter. I like the simplicity of this..

I read somewhere else on here that people are using their Apple airport and somehow being able to access the digital unconverted signal that way as well. Can anyone elaborate on how it is done.

I do however in the end NOT want to have to play my music off one off my computers to hear them over my ML system. I had an HTPC system before and I had enough of all that hassle! No I do not have an iphone or ipod touch to control it remotely.

what do you guys suggest?

thanks gordon

From the quick look I've just had, it looks like the Air Port [Extreme] is just a wireless switch, so unless your DAC has Ethernet connectivity, you're hooped.

I think I'd be inclined to go the Wadia 170i route. In fact, I plan to buy one for my wife for her birthday next month, so that she can hook her iPhone into her stereo (upstairs, not my big rig downstairs).
 
At the price the Wadia is almost a no-brainer IMO.
 
great, thanks for all the quick advice! I also heard that the airport was a pita to set up properly... I know all the fun I had when trying to setup my microsoft router with the 5 computers/laptops I have hooked up throughout my house!

I am sure I will be buying the Wadia - I just know once I place my order, my luck will be that apple will announce that they will start offering just a simple white ipod dock with a digital out for $29.99 !
 
what about on normal mp3's recorded / downloaded at 128mbps... will I notice a difference there as well or just on the uncompressed tracks that I rip via itunes?
 
great, thanks for all the quick advice! I also heard that the airport was a pita to set up properly... I know all the fun I had when trying to setup my microsoft router with the 5 computers/laptops I have hooked up throughout my house!

I am sure I will be buying the Wadia - I just know once I place my order, my luck will be that apple will announce that they will start offering just a simple white ipod dock with a digital out for $29.99 !

There's no "simple" way to get the digital out of the iPod, so you can rest assured that there won't be a cheap apple version of this.

I think you will really enjoy how good the iPod can sound with the Wadia!
 
I tried the Apple Express at one time but I never could get the Apple Express to work properly AND still use everything else on the network which includes both PC and MAC devices. Maybe if it was an all MAC system I would have had less issues. After the frustration I made an express return of the Apple Express to the Apple store. Although, I will say the Apple Extreme has been a very good wireless router.

I continue to use the Slimdevices SB3, Squeeze Center, iTunes and EAC software as a complete music server system. I've been using this system for the past 3 years now and it's while it takes a little effort to setup it is by far the best sounding and supported networked music server system you will ever find in the $300-$400 range. In addition to internet radio, Pandora, and other online audio media services it can also play iTunes (except for DRM music which I avoid as much as possible).

I'll buy a Wadia dock as soon as they release the black model but it will only supplement and not replace my SB3 system.

Since you don't want to use a computer to play your digital music then I wold definitely go with the Wadia Dock over the Apple Express. However, I don't recommend relying on a iPhone as the source and its still not clear to me if the Wadia dock will even work with an iPhone. What happens when a call comes in while your using it as your source? Best to use an iPod.
 
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what about on normal mp3's recorded / downloaded at 128mbps... will I notice a difference there as well or just on the uncompressed tracks that I rip via itunes?

mp3's are not very likely to sound all that great no matter what you're playing them through. However, you may notice even more of a difference in higher resolution recordings/downloads with the Wadia, a good DAC and your MLs than you would with a lesser system.
 
I tried the Apple Express at one time but I never could get the Apple Express to work properly AND still use everything else on the network which includes both PC and MAC devices. Maybe if it was an all MAC system I would have had less issues. After the frustration I made an express return of the Apple Express to the Apple store. Although, I will say the Apple Extreme has been a very good wireless router.

I continue to use the Slimdevices SB3, Squeeze Center, iTunes and EAC software as a complete music server system. I've been using this system for the past 3 years now and it's while it takes a little effort to setup it is by far the best sounding and supported networked music server system you will ever find in the $300-$400 range. In addition to internet radio, Pandora, and other online audio media services it can also play iTunes (except for DRM music which I avoid as much as possible).

I'll buy a Wadia dock as soon as they release the black model but it will only supplement and not replace my SB3 system.

Since you don't want to use a computer to play your digital music then I wold definitely go with the Wadia Dock over the Apple Express. However, I don't recommend relying on a iPhone as the source and its still not clear to me if the Wadia dock will even work with an iPhone. What happens when a call comes in while your using it as your source? Best to use an iPod.

Yes, I too have heard people having problems with the Apple Express... For your info, no I do NOT have the Iphone (i'm a Blackberry Bold user, thank you very much!) - I just have a regular Ipod (unfortunately only the 8mb version so that will have to be upgraged as well!)
Thanks for your input!
 
There's no "simple" way to get the digital out of the iPod, so you can rest assured that there won't be a cheap apple version of this.

I think you will really enjoy how good the iPod can sound with the Wadia!

that is good to hear... I would not think so, but I guess you never know with those crazy apple guys! I think this will be the best option for my setup - the Wadia!
 
The Wadia only works with the latest generations of the iPod, The classic and the iTouch, It does has limited functionality with all previous versions.

Personally I do not understand why anyone would buy the Wadia for normal home use, unless network access was just not avaiable. I have the Sonos, and would use either it or the SB3, They have a better interface than the wadia (bigger screen), have both analog and digital outputs, and do not need the iPod present, they just grab the files from the computer / hard disk directly. The only advantage to the Wadia is that it lets me bring my iPod over to your house . You already have the data in both spots (hard disk and iPod). At $380 plus the cost of the a DAC, the SB3 seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
I'll agree with Bourke here. The iPod is a portable device and great as it is, there are compromises when using it in a home system. Nothing to do with sound quality, but the tiny screen for instance. Control is another issue.

Go for a proper audio streamer like the SB3 or Sonos. Even the Apple TV would be a better bet if you want to stay with Apple - but you will need an iTouch or iPhone to control it if you don't want to have your TV monitor on all the time.
 
Hmm interesting observations! How far can the squeezebox stream wirelessly? My main computer is on the second floor and my HT is in the basement. would it reach that far? What about playlists, etc... will it read all of the itunes playlists?

On the other hand, I have an ipod Nano 8b, not the newest one, but the boxy one that was a generation before the new one... will that work with the Wadia???

On the other hand, I would still think that my D/A converters in my Theta Casa Nova would still be better than anything in a Logitech device???

I am open to all opinions. Thanks!
 
I still think the Airport Express is the cheapest way to introduce wireless music. I found mine simple to set up. It works as my main router with 2 Mac's, 2 PC's and a PS3 all connected. One of the Mac's has the primary library with pretty much all music in Apple Lossless format.

The Airport Express has both optical and analog out from the same plug; ally you need is an adaptor for the digital cable and you do get true digital out from the PC.
From there, optical in to a receiver or a DAC to convert to analog. I just did the DAC route and I'm getting better quality than off a dedicated CD player. Your mileage may vary.

If you're looking to get a new iPod due to space, the space is much cheaper on a PC/Mac. If you get a Touch, even a used 1st Gen, you have full control of the iTunes Library and the PC/Mac can be anywhere in the house.
I also have a second Airport Express near in the back room with a mini system using the analog out. Good enough for tunes on the patio.

From the Touch, I can chose wherever the music is routed to all via WiFi.

If you go the Wadia route, you still have to have to convert to analog, with a receiver or external DAC plus the interface/remote is a little weak IMHO.

My 2 cents (Canadia) worth.. I just find the Apple route an elegant solution which is very simple, flexible and relatively inexpensive.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide on.
 
just another thought.. your music pretty much has to be in iTunes to transfer to your iPod so its on the PC anyway, right? That's the hardest part :D
 
just another thought.. your music pretty much has to be in iTunes to transfer to your iPod so its on the PC anyway, right? That's the hardest part :D

yep, you have a point there! But I want to be able to change songs in my HT and not have to run upstairs to my computer ...
 
Hmm interesting observations! How far can the squeezebox stream wirelessly? My main computer is on the second floor and my HT is in the basement. would it reach that far? What about playlists, etc... will it read all of the itunes playlists?

The Squeezebox uses a WiFi network - it'll stream as far as that allows. It depends on construction, inteference, etc. - but I'd say you'd be fine. If the signal is marginal you can always transcode to a lower bitrate if it is not for critical listening (you said the garage, right)?

It WILL read your iTunes library and playlists.

On the other hand, I have an ipod Nano 8b, not the newest one, but the boxy one that was a generation before the new one... will that work with the Wadia???

No idea sorry - someone else might be able to chime in. That's the biggest problem with Apple equipment though - it's closed-source so you can't get to it and they change, change, change. Nothing is compatible with anything else for reasons best left to them.

On the other hand, I would still think that my D/A converters in my Theta Casa Nova would still be better than anything in a Logitech device???

I'm not familiar with the Theta DAC, but the SB3 DAC is respectable if not "audiophile quality". Speaking in $AUD terms, a SB3 can be had for about $AUD130 and to my ears it will outperform a $AUD600 CD player.
 
I have a digital input on my Wadia CD player and that is definitely better so I'm using that. I have a second SB3 that I use in my office with analog out to a Sophia Baby tube amp and I find the internal DAC (analog output) of the SB3 is surprisingly pretty good.

Even if the older generation will work with the Wadia you'll probably want to upgrade that soon since the 8mb isn't going to hold much if using a higher rez or iTunes Plus format.
 
From the quick look I've just had, it looks like the Air Port [Extreme] is just a wireless switch, so unless your DAC has Ethernet connectivity, you're hooped.

Patently untrue...

The Airport is actually MADE to stream music from iTunes from a computer through it's wireless connection. If your DAC has a TOSLINK input, it will work wonderfully with an Airport Express. HOWEVER, unless you have a good outboard DAC that you can run it's TOSLINK digital signal into, the Airport will give you the same quality output (using it's analogue jack) that you'll get from the headphone jack of your computer...

great, thanks for all the quick advice! I also heard that the airport was a pita to set up properly... I know all the fun I had when trying to setup my microsoft router with the 5 computers/laptops I have hooked up throughout my house!

Anyone who has told you that the Airport is a pita to set up is either VERY technically challenged, or trying to sell you something that they'll get a bigger commission on. The Airport is dead-simple to set up for streaming iTunes audio from a Mac OR a PC. It takes longer if you're running Windoze, because you essentially have to trick the OS into understanding that it's actually connected to something it has no physical connection with (which under Windows, is a functional impossibility as per its fundamental specs, but "vee have vays to make it talk"...), but if you're using the current install package for the Airport, it takes about 15 minutes to set up. It's actually easier than setting up a new printer for Windows...

But the REAL beauty of the Airport, is it is NOT a uni-tasker, like a Squeezebox or a "media server". Your computer is STILL your computer, but now, it's ALSO a wireless music server. And the Airport isn't JUST an airport, it's also a wireless print server, if you don't mind having a printer near your stereo. And the Airport can also be configured as a "repeater" for your wireless router, so it is effectively ALSO a wireless range extender. Not bad for $100, eh?

However, the Airport WILL not hook up to your iPod. That's not what it's designed to do--it is NOT a digital interface for iPods--it is a WIRELESS device, for networking and streaming audio. The Airport isn't even in the same class of device as far as what it's meant to do as the Wadia dock. Putting these two devices together in the same conversation is like asking which is a better tool for building my house--a chainsaw or a TIG welder?

So what I'm getting at here is that the Airport IS a good device--for what it does--AND providing you have a good external DAC and a quality TOSLINK (preferably with glass fiber) cable. But you can't hook your iPod up to it...

Now the Wadia dock is a sweet little rig--it's a GREAT way to get the pure digital bitstream out of an iPod and into a good outboard DAC. However, that's ALL it does. You can't hook a computer to it. It isn't wireless. And it isn't compatible with the REALLY old iPods, and there have been some reported compatibility issues with the new 3G iPhones. And on top of all that, with the Wadia, you're STILL going to need an outboard DAC--it ONLY serves as a dock--it has NO built-in D/A conversion capabilities...

So if you HAVE to use an iPod as a source, then I would HIGHLY recommend getting the Wadia. I've heard it in several rigs, and it is a VERY clean piece of kit. IT will bring out a level of performance from your iPod or iPhone that you never knew possible, ESPECIALLY if you're ripping your music in Apple Lossless.

But if you are looking to stream music wirelessly from a computer (laptop or desktop) from iTunes, then the Airport is really the ONLY game in town. It's inexpensive, a multi-tasker, AND it leaved your iTunes library useable and intact, (doesn't EVERYONE who is REALLY interested in good portable digital sound use an iPod and iTunes these days, anyway?...)

yep, you have a point there! But I want to be able to change songs in my HT and not have to run upstairs to my computer ...

If you have an iPod Touch, or an iPhone, you can get the "Remote" app for FREE from Apple's iTunes Store, and control your computer--IF your computer is a Mac. It's VERY cool, AND it's FREE...

Yeah, Apple gear costs a little more at the register, but their support is simply light-years ahead of ANYONE else in the business, and they give you all sorts of cool free stuff along the way that is actually USEFUL, instead of a folder full of Mah Jhong and Solitaire games like you get with Windoze...

There's no "simple" way to get the digital out of the iPod, so you can rest assured that there won't be a cheap apple version of this.

I think you will really enjoy how good the iPod can sound with the Wadia!

Again, this is PATENTLY false. Getting digital out of an iPod is actually a painfully simple process--it's no more technically difficult that getting a digital signal out of a computer. It's just that Apple has put all sort of weird-ass encryption on the digital signal that comes out of the dock port of the 'Pods to PREVENT anyone from doing that unless they pay proper Tribute at the Alter of Jobs, so that they can get the "secret handshake codes" to give their devices access to this digital stream. Technically, there is NO reason why you shouldn't be able to run a digital bistream out of the USB or dock ports on an iPod/iPhone, just like you can pump a digital stream out of the USB port of your computer. The reason why it doesn't work that way is NOt because it's technically difficuly--IT'S NOT!!!--it's because Apple decided to make this function a way they could have VERY tight control over the quality of the devices that did it, by charging an extorsionary fee for the "codes" to unlock the functionality and decode the encrypted bitstream...

Don't get me wrong--I LOVE Apple, and have been a MacEvangelist for 20 years, but it seems that Apple is getting more and more like Micro$oft every day with their "proprietary this" and "hobbled technology that", and it's starting to get old. The iPod/iPhone are INCREDIBLE technologies, but between Apple and AT&T intentionally hobbling some of their most innovative capabilities, even some of us die-hard Apple nuts are getting a little jaded...

So anyway, if you want to stream from your computer, get an Airport, and forget about all the other crap.

But if you want to use your 'Pod or iPhone as a source for your stereo, you can't go wrong with the Wadia dock...
 
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