Signal Cable Ultra vs Silver speaker cables

Has anyone had the opportunity to try both the Signal Cable Ultra and/or the Silver speaker cables in a system with the Vistas (or other recent MLs)? I'd like to audition them, but I need 8 foot lengths which is a custom order so I don't think Frank allows custom orders to be returned if I don't like them. Just looking for some contrast/comparison feedback and description of the sound between the two (Ultra vs Silver) speaker cables.

My system goes from a Marantz SA-8003 SACD player to a Promitheus Audio dual mono transformer volume control to an Odyssey 150 watt per channel amp to the Vistas. Interconnect cables range from Harmonic Technology, Tara Labs, and Promitheus Silver RCA and XLR, depending on my mood, but the current speaker cable is Harmonic Technology Pro-11 (not biwired-which is why I want to replace them).

Thanks ahead for any help,
crusty

While I haven't compared the two I am using the Ultra's in my system in which I consider them to provide 'total audible satisfaction' !

Also, FWIW, the Ultra's are excellent choices if you care about specifications as they relate to resistance, capacitnece and inductance relative our electrostatic design of speaker (per Roger Sanders 'White Paper').

After reading here and others forums about the benefit of using silver ICs, I took the leap and ordered 2 sets of Silver Resolution XLR @ 1 meter each and a pair of 6ft Silver Resolution Biwire speaker cables.

I have RCA Excalibur Ribbons from Mapleshades connecting my DAC>pre>amps. I started by installing the speaker wire first. I found a mixed presentation. The bottom dropped completely out of the sound and the mid bass was fairly articulate and accurate. The mids and highs were highly accurate but right on the edge of the "bleeding edge" vice a leading edge. Attack and decay was simply stunning. Imaging was quite good but the depth seemed to shrink a bit. After several hours it became apparent to me these cables were not going to cut it for extended listening sessions due to a somewhat sterile and dry presentation.

I then installed the pair of cables between the DAC>pre leaving the speaker cable installed. This set of cables had the largest impact of all. Everything just fell completely apart. I had no imaging, depth or width. It sounded like I threw wet blankets over the speakers. I was pretty surprised at the poor results.

I finally installed the pair between the pre>amps. The system seemed to recover somewhat to the point of maybe some sheets thrown over the speakers. By this point I had about 30 hours on all the wires. While there may be arguments (discussions) on burn in time, I do not subscribe to the theory. But, I thought since I was doing this I'd give the ICs the 50 hours recommended. I'm still not convinced of the burn in of the wire or my ears but the bass did seem to tighten up a bit but not to the point where I thought it was acceptable to me.

After about 75 hours, I reversed the procedure outlined above. The sound was much more to my liking once all the copper ICs were back in the system. My experiment with silver in my system was fun to do. Some things sounded better with the silver, some worse. I like the copper ICs as an all around IC which does not seem to emphasize one area at the expense of another.

Edit: Working with Frank was a pleasure! It was nice to pick up the phone and talk with a human being and get his recommendation. Top notch customer service and I would not hesitate to work with or buy a product from Frank.

Gordon

I use the Signal Cable Silver Resolution series interconnects and speaker cables and love them. Haven't compared them directly with the Ultra's though.

I ordered 8ft Ultras runs for my Vistas last fall and couldn't be happier. When I ordered the cables from Frank I explained what I had and asked which would be the best fit the Ultras or the Silver's for the Vistas and he steered me towards the Ultras explaining they would be the better fit. I have to admit I was impressed. It's not very often you find a company/individual that tries to down sell you on their products. Frank is fantastic to work with and honestly wants to provide customers with the best possible product for their systems. I can't recommend him, or his cables highly enough. Since purchasing the Ultras last fall I've actually moved all of my cables Speaker/IC/Power over to Signal products and my systems never sounded better. Let us know what you end up with and your thoughts on his cables.

I have used both the Ultras and the Silver Resolutions but not on Martin Logans. I used them with Sonus Faber speakers, which I would characterize as fairly warm sounding. I found that the Ultras were good but the Silver Resolutions were much better with the Sonus Fabers. They provided more detail and a bit of clarity (perhaps compensating a bit for the warmth of the Sonus Fabers). That being said, I think on the Martin Logans I would use the Ultras. While I had/have Silver Resolutions in my cable collection, based on my experience with the Sonus Fabers, I decided to use copper (PS Audio Xstream) for my SL3s. For my system, I felt a full copper cable would mesh better with the SL3s. I think the Silver Resolutions would have over emphasized the high end. Unfortunately, I sold my SL3s so I can't compare.

Hello Everyone,

Thank you all very much for your helpful feedback!

I was wondering if anyone knew the inductance value for the Ultras. It's not on the Signal Cable website. I read Sanders' white paper and it appears inductance is the most important value of the three when it comes to Martin Logans.

Also, what are people's opinions on BFA bananas versus spades.

Thanks again,

crusty

crusty said:

Also, what are people's opinions on BFA bananas versus spades.

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My speaker cables currently have banana plugs, but when I replace them I will specify spades. The reason I'd prefer spades is that one can really tighten the connection, whereas bananas tend to be friction fit only.

I like certain bananas, bit not the standard type. Locking bananas are good, because they don't slip out when you move the cables around, and they make a tight connection. I also like the "Z-Plug" bananas that Nordost uses too--they aren;t locking, but they make contact with a LOT more surface area than those "leaf-spring" type bananas that most manufacturers use...

The main reason I like bananas is because I'm an inveterate tweeker, and cable-swapper, and it's just a LOT quicker and easier to switch things around when the amps and speakers are connected using bananas, rather than spades...

--Richard

Thanks again everyone.

I was able to talk to Frank at Signal Cable, who said that eight foot lengths are common and not custom (like for example 15 feet would be), so I ordered both the Silver Resolution and Ultra speaker cables. I threw in a Magic Power cord as well. I'll try both and return what I don't like.

I decided on BFA bananas because they look like they might have more surface contact area than a spade. If I need spades in the future (for the locking down purpose), I can always send it back to Frank to have them reterminated.


Best regards,

crusty

Good luck Crusty on your decision and keep us posted on your observations.

I recently switched my IC's from Mapleshade (copper based) to the DH Labs Revelation, which is silver based.

Although the difference was not huge, the DH Labs provided a bit more top end extension / clarity. However, the biggest difference was in the mid / lower bass.

In my system, the lower range had more punch and definition and, dare I say, better integration with the panel and dynamic drivers.

GG

Definitely update us on your observations. Give each cable type a week or two in your system before you fully evaluate it and then switch to the other cable type. That should tune you into them pretty well.

Since there are those on the forum who use both kinds, but few who have compared the two, your observations will be very useful.

I strongly recommend magic power cords to power your speakers, especially if you have active woofers like the Summit and Vantage. They make a big difference.

EDIT...nevermind I went and ordered cables and IC's from Frank rather than wait.

Rich said:

Definitely update us on your observations. Give each cable type a week or two in your system before you fully evaluate it and then switch to the other cable type. That should tune you into them pretty well.

Since there are those on the forum who use both kinds, but few who have compared the two, your observations will be very useful.

I strongly recommend magic power cords to power your speakers, especially if you have active woofers like the Summit and Vantage. They make a big difference.

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Rich, When you bought the power cables, did you choose the standard ML length of 10 ft or did you specify a particular length? Equal lengths or lengths specific to your room?

Thanks, Gordon

Gordon said:

Rich, When you bought the power cables, did you choose the standard ML length of 10 ft or did you specify a particular length? Equal lengths or lengths specific to your room?

Thanks, Gordon

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Gordon, I ordered Magic Power Cables for all of my equipment, including the speakers and I ordered the exact lengths that I needed. Since I have a power conditioner for each side of my system (can you say, overkill?), I didn't need a very long cord from the Speakers. I think the speaker power cords are three feet or four feet in length, and both are the same length. These plug into a Furman line conditioner, which then plugs into a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

I've been working with both for a couple of weeks now, with the Magic power cable to the amp. I don't know much about break-in but have had about a week on each (about 40 hours).

My system: Marantz SA8003 to Promitheus Audio (PA) silver RCA interconnect to PA dual mono C-core TVCs to PA silver XLR to Odysey SS amp, to ML Vistas.

My impressions of the two so far is that the Silver gives the feeling that the music is more expansive in its scope in that it is more fluid, natural, dynamic, exciting, gives more air, pace, rhythm, and drive. This translate to more emotion to the music, and moves and stirs the soul. I can definitely hear things in the music that I missed (or was missing) before. It is never harsh, bright, or fatiguing. The sound is more real, and closer to what music should sound like. The music is more taught and controlled but not overly so, and very natural. The down side is that compared to the Ultras, the bass (maybe more accurately the midbass) is not as plump or full, though it energizes the room in the deeper bass better, especially when turned up. It can get the blood flowing.

The Ultras, as compared to my Harmonic Technology Pro-11 (single wired):
The bass is more subtly nuanced, not droning like the HTs can do sometimes. The mids and treble seem to come more alive, have more detail, and is more dynamic. The effects of this cable are subtle, but noticeable. Still warm, but not as much as the HTs (a good thing).

The Ultras, as compared to the SC Silver:
It does not have the extension or the pace and drive of the Silver. It is warm overall, however, and some of the details of the music can be obscured. Bass, and midbass are not as taught, but sounds fuller.

My dilemma is that I want all the strengths of the Silver while retaining the fullness of the Ultra.

I'm thinking of getting a SC digital power cord for the Marantz SACD player (which I anticipate will increase the dynamics and clarity like the Magic did to my system), and adding the Silver Interconnects since the website says it has awesome bass. I'm not sure this will necessarily give me fuller bass though.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
crusty

crusty said:

Bass, and midbass are not as taught, but sounds fuller.

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My personal take on this extra fullness in the bass/midbass region (what some refer to as a mid-bass hump) is that while it may be somewhat pleasing (much like the euphonics of some tube designs can sound pleasing), it is not accurate reproduction. Ultimately, I prefer a more accurate reproduction of the musical signal, which is probably why I prefer the Silver Resolutions to purely copper-based cables.

Rich said:

Ultimately, I prefer a more accurate reproduction of the musical signal, which is probably why I prefer the Silver Resolutions to purely copper-based cables.

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Rich, is this to say copper is incapable of carrying an 'accurate signal' ??

the engineer in me thinks not !! Now I'm not saying your wrong in preferring silver based 'wire' in your rig, just that it IS NOT inherently more accurate to copper.

Certainly, Dave. Feel free to insert "in my system" after my comment. I didn't mean to imply that copper-based cables can't carry an accurate signal. Just as in some systems, silver-based cables can sound thin and bright to some people, in my system they sound more accurate (to me) throughout the frequency band than the copper-based cables I have tried. Not that I have tried every copper based cable out there . . .

Since I like the strengths of both cables, I am thinking about using the Ultras (copper) for the bass, and the Silvers for the panel. I can stack the spades. Does anyone know if this is a bad idea or not? Frank is not a big fan of it, but says that some customers have had good luck with this.