Expensive Gear You Have Bought/Tried That Sucked Badly?

Go on - warn us all away. What have you bought/tried that you thought was way over priced for the performance on offer or sounded pretty terrible?

I don't speak for everyone, but I think it's hard to take gear home and try it out unless you have a really good relationship with the dealer.

As far as auditions go...I haven't done that in a long, long time aside from the RMAF where I got to demo numerous hi-end gear. Bring up Tim's or my RMAF 2008 thread and I'm sure you'll stumble across a few threads about some gear that didn't live up to the hype or price. There was one particular set up (I am almost positive it's in Tim's report) that really turned me off - it was either the recording, the room, or both - it was just plain bad.

Having said, of all of the rooms I went to - most of this stuff was indeed awesome. I was probably more captivated by the lower end bookshelf/monitor speakers (great price/performance ratio).

Check out post 7 here:

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7410&highlight=rocky+mountain+audio+fest

I really didn't care for that set up.

Electronics

For me, anything by Mark Levinson. It sounds so dead and lifeless to my ears, just detail. I can't understand why people pay big bucks for that. What do people like about it? Is it for older guys with deteriorating hearing?

Speakers

Any non-electrostat or non-planar speaker under $30K. These speakers just can't do the midrange. I think I understand why people buy them, as some may have good bass to establish the foundation for music. Nevertheless, I would put up a Logan such as the Source or Purity and its midrange would kill anything under $30K.

David Matz said:

Electronics

For me, anything by Mark Levinson. It sounds so dead and lifeless to my ears, just detail. I can't understand why people pay big bucks for that. What do people like about it? Is it for older guys with deteriorating hearing?

Speakers

Any non-electrostat or non-planar speaker under $30K. These speakers just can't do the midrange. I think I understand why people buy them, as some may have good bass to establish the foundation for music. Nevertheless, I would put up a Logan such as the Source or Purity and its midrange would kill anything under $30K.

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There are a lot of great speakers out there for that price that are amazingly good. Much as I like my ML's the purity does not "kill" everything under 30k... Sorry.

And we're giving the Purity one of our exceptional value awards, so it's not like Im not a fan.

We have 15 year old a Bose Lifestyle audio system that was given to us. At the time, these were $1K. They sound like trash. My wife loves it, however, because it does everything she wants with only one simple remote. Bleah!

I once had an interesting experience years ago with a set of Naim Intro speakers that a dealer was trying to sell to me. These speakers sounded great in his showroom, up against the rear wall & powered by Naim electronics (Nait 3 and CD3). In my home, they sounded nothing like this, having very poor resolution when driven by my ARC electronics of the day (SP10 MkII, D70 MkII). Two keys here, first these speakers were designed to be positioned up against the rear wall (which I didn't know at first), and two, they really sound their best driven by Naim gear. Bottom line was that I wasn't willing to spend all of that money on an all-Naim system. Careful listening at the showroom convinced me that I was initially attracted but that my system at the time was actually much more to my liking (Qual ESLs with the above ARCs). So, while the Naim gear did not sound bad, it was pretty expensive in those days due to having to buy all Naim gear (plus the special DIN cables at the time).

tonepub said:

There are a lot of great speakers out there for that price that are amazingly good. Much as I like my ML's the purity does not "kill" everything under 30k... Sorry.

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Just talking about the midrange now. I have never heard a speaker under $30k that does a better midrange than a stat.

Just heard a Raidho priced in the low $30 K's last weekend. It did not do it either. (It did have an exaggerated and very good high end, though.)

I guess we can agree to diasagree.

While I was waiting to take delivery of my Koetsu Rosewood the dealer lent me a Benz that cost about the same ($2,500). It did not suck badly, but was nowhere as good as the Koetsu.

When I was limited to only one system in the house I wanted excellent 7.1 and killer 2.0 out of the same system. On several peoples recommendation I bought an Anthem Statement D2 as a pre-pro ($6700 MSRP at the time). It sounded excellent in 2 channel, but was highly unreliable in multichannel audio and video processing. It took 3 units before I finally got one that worked and after that there were weekly firmware updates that haven't ceased to this day. Dealing with Anthem's CS was no joy (and I'm being polite), even though I have heard many others rave about it. I finally got really tired of being a beta tester and sold off the D2 and purchased an Integra DTC 9.8 for my multi-channel and a BAT VK31SE for my 2 channel.

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showpost.php?p=83380&postcount=29

I've said it before, but I continue to be disappointed by the thoroughly mediocre sound of these beautiful little speakers.

Since everyone is posting a link, see the last paragraph of post #6.

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6489

please do not cringe

I think that my lexicon mc-8B may be an over priced P.O.S! ever since I purchased it I have felt that compared to my outlaw 990 that the sound leaves a lot to be desired.I bought it used and already sold my outlaw when I took ownership and ever since I have been fairly unhappy with its performance!

pro's

1) everyone thinks you have a great piece of equipment
2) it has many settings that most pre pro's do not have which is really nice

con's
1) voices are not engaging and lifeless
2) the sound sounds like it has been threw a digital mastering washing machine
3) I could go on but I think I am getting ****ed thinking about it

I will hopefully be soon replacing this overpriced thing with something that is worth what I paid for it.

Levinson / Houstonshark input?

Hi David,

Your post jogged a memory / experience with Levinson amps.

I was able to try one and like you said, found it dry, two dimensional, and non involving. I had the Aerius at that time. I must admit I didn't try different cables, preamps, or CDP's.

I've always had the attitude that when I insert a piece in my system, it needs to work with what I have and not compel me to spend additional dollars to optimize the new piece's performance.

Given their stature in the high end market, I had assumed my experience was atypical. Perhaps Houstonshark will chime in since he sells the product and recently posted about his Levinson / CLX combo.

What caught my curiosity was his comment that one Levinson amp was superior (by a large margin if I understood his post) to another model when auditioned through the CLX.

GG

PS: Jeff, if you have any insight you wish to share on this, I'd certainly appreciate your observations also.

Back In another time when I had an all tube system and my Apogees, I tried out a pair of the then new Rogue Audio M120's. I did not care for them at all.

Even Longer ago a pair of Dahlquists DQ something or another they were the shortest lived speaker I ever had they lasted a week.

Klipsch Chorus II had these for about a month. although they sounded great as long as you were not in the same room.

When I got my Vantage's I tried a Rotel RB 1080 did not care for it at all
A Top of the line Denon Receiver that would lose video sync with my LaserDisc player

Gordon Gray said:

Hi David,

Your post jogged a memory / experience with Levinson amps.

I was able to try one and like you said, found it dry, two dimensional, and non involving. I had the Aerius at that time. I must admit I didn't try different cables, preamps, or CDP's.

I've always had the attitude that when I insert a piece in my system, it needs to work with what I have and not compel me to spend additional dollars to optimize the new piece's performance.

Given their stature in the high end market, I had assumed my experience was atypical. Perhaps Houstonshark will chime in since he sells the product and recently posted about his Levinson / CLX combo.

What caught my curiosity was his comment that one Levinson amp was superior (by a large margin if I understood his post) to another model when auditioned through the CLX.

GG

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Hi Gordon,

We are not the only ones who have had this experience with Levinson. I know a home based dealer and he knew the Levinson rep at the time. He told me the Levinson rep did not own Levinson equipment because he did not like it!

This perfect quote is from Mikey Fremer's review of the Ayre V1 amp in Stereophile. He compares it to a Levinson:


.....From disc to disc, so it went: The Levinson excelled at controlling the presentation, focusing the picture, and achieving a sense of seamless sonic stability, though in a somewhat cool and reserved way. The Ayre scored points with a rich, palpable, three-dimensional midrange that seemed to reach out to, grab, and draw me into the emotional center of the music. The Levinson went for the head, the Ayre for the heart. Despite its name, the Levinson was the WASPier-sounding amp, the Ayre more the hand-gesturing Jewish- or Italian-sounding amp.



Two great products. Two different sounds. One offensive analogy.

....
For guys who love detail, Levinson is an option. Still, it is a poor value. Bryston is more neutral and cheaper at the same time.

I haven't paid close attention to Levinson lately, so I really can't comment. I was not a fan of the Levinson amplification back in the mid 90s when I had my Aerius' either, but they made some pretty good CD players then!

However, back when Mark Levinson the man had more hand in things, I did have a pair of the ML-2 25 watt class A amplifiers and they were quite nice! Used em with Magnepan Tympanis and then my CLS's. Very musical.

All this is making me want to investigate some current Levinson and see what the hoo hah is.

It's all relative, because I'm not a fan of Ayre amplification, it always sounds a little too forward to me. It just goes to show that at that level, it's really personal taste. I've heard the Ayre monos in a few systems that have sounded very good and I've heard them with Wilson and Hansen and both were way too bright and forward for my taste.

For this kind of money, you always have to check for yourself. I can't imagine that the Levinson stuff is terribly musical with Wilson Maxx 2's which are already pretty forward sounding. I've always enjoyed the Maxx 2's with tubes.

tonepub said:

However, back when Mark Levinson the man had more hand in things, I did have a pair of the ML-2 25 watt class A amplifiers and they were quite nice! Used em with Magnepan Tympanis and then my CLS's. Very musical.

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Way back in the day when I was in sales, we got in a pair of the ML-2 on trade. Surprisingly, that amp drove the Apogee Stages to a sonic quality that no other amp we had ever came close to. To this day I wish i had bought those for the $750.00 I could have gotten them for. IMO the best Levinson amp ever made.

I also remember Apogee's and Levinson amps!

tonepub said:

I haven't paid close attention to Levinson lately, so I really can't comment. I was not a fan of the Levinson amplification back in the mid 90s when I had my Aerius' either, but they made some pretty good CD players then!

However, back when Mark Levinson the man had more hand in things, I did have a pair of the ML-2 25 watt class A amplifiers and they were quite nice! Used em with Magnepan Tympanis and then my CLS's. Very musical.

All this is making me want to investigate some current Levinson and see what the hoo hah is.

It's all relative, because I'm not a fan of Ayre amplification, it always sounds a little too forward to me. It just goes to show that at that level, it's really personal taste. I've heard the Ayre monos in a few systems that have sounded very good and I've heard them with Wilson and Hansen and both were way too bright and forward for my taste.

For this kind of money, you always have to check for yourself. I can't imagine that the Levinson stuff is terribly musical with Wilson Maxx 2's which are already pretty forward sounding. I've always enjoyed the Maxx 2's with tubes.

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I run a Ayre CX-7 front end with a Levinsion 335 amplifier. This is my second Levinson amp. The first one (ML-9) was actualy when he was still owned the company and one after he left! I always loved the sound of the ML-2.Wasn't that a John Curl designed amp? I was fortunate to know Christopher Hansen pretty well and he used that particular setup at his old Robertson store location.That was until he switched to using Krell which is a whole different post. The ML-9, now that was a dark and lifeless sounding amp with no midrange. However it could drive my at the time Sequel II's easily.

Fast forward to now. Still a Levinson amplifier but now it's the 335 with different cables and definitely different speakers being Wilson Watt Puppy 7's! Funny it doesn't sound "forward" to me in my system? You and I both know that some cables the way they are "voiced" can change the soundstage to a "forward" presentation. I do agree that the Maxx 2's (next speaker purchase for me) sound very good with tubes. I've been fortunate to hear them with the VTL amps. Dynamic but with a sweetness in the mids that I still cannot recreate with my SS amp.

My thread - better put a few thoughts down:

1) Nearly all class D amps I have heard, apart from when relegated to bass duties only. Exception: Chapter Audio amps. I don't know exactly what they are doing different, but they are extremely good.

2) I have never liked the really big Tannoy speakers e.g. the Westminsters. They just don't seem to do anything well.

3) Meridian digital loudspeakers.

4) All ATC loudspeakers. A real "get me out of the room" job, especially when driven by SS amps.

5) Kingsound electrostatics. A disgrace to the name "electrostatic".

There's loads more I think is pretty bad. I will add some later maybe...

User211 said:

1) Nearly all class D amps I have heard, apart from when relegated to bass duties only. Exception: Chapter Audio amps. I don't know exactly what they are doing different, but they are extremely good.

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Of course - how could I forget that. For me there are no exceptions. Of particular not is the Lyngdorf/TacT digital amp (forget the model) - that nearly made me forget the Vista and look to non-ML speakers!