Unequal Cable Lengths

We follow without question the requirement that the left and right interconnects between the pre-amp and power amp (for example) should be of equal length. But should they? In our application does it make a difference ?

The reason I ask is that I use monoblocks, and the length of the cable to the monoblock that is farthest from the preamp is 8m, and I could easily use a 1.5m cable between the preamp and the other monoblock, hence avoiding having a long cable draped all over the floor. I could easily have the 8m cable cut up so I could sell the excess.

Opinions?

Bernard said:

We follow without question the requirement that the left and right interconnects between the pre-amp and power amp (for example) should be of equal length. But should they? In our application does it make a difference ?

The reason I ask is that I use monoblocks, and the length of the cable to the monoblock that is farthest from the preamp is 8m, and I could easily use a 1.5m cable between the preamp and the other monoblock, hence avoiding having a long cable draped all over the floor. I could easily have the 8m cable cut up so I could sell the excess.

Opinions?

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In reality it would probably make absolutely no difference at all. But when you've got what you have invested in your system, I don't think it is worth worrying about if there is a difference or not - just keep them the same and then you can forget abou it.

Similarly, having one speaker a few mm out of symmetery is going to have little or no effect on sound quality either, but would you leave them like that - sometimes it's not how it sounds - it's what you know!

Think about the science a bit. I'll use round figures but the principle is obvious.

Electrical signal travels at the speed of light, approx 300,000 kms per second. The difference in your cables is 6 metres for simple arithmetic. The signal therefore travels that distance in 1/50,000,000 of a second.

Sound travels at about 1,000 kms per hour, or 1,000,000 metres per hour. Therefore the above discrepancy would be the equivalent of having each of your speakers a slightly different distance from you, the difference being 0.01mm, one one hundredth of a millimetre! I bet nobody on this forum is THAT fussy about speaker placement.

Check my arithmetic, I may have got it wrong by a decimal place or two or three, but it just doesn't matter.

Sit back, relax and enjoy your music.

Bernard, one possible 'negative' is if and when you go to try and sell your IC's, the difference in lengths you speak of will make them damn near impossible to sell.

My local cable dealer sold me longer (more expensive) cables as a free upgrade because he insisted that the length I was going to buy was too short to sound good.

At RMAF, at the Nordost demo, they insisted that 4m is the optimal length for cables, and every cable they were using in the demonstration was of that length, even though it was much longer than they needed. I believe they even did a demo of the same cable in 2m and 4m lengths.


I've never done a test myself, but given how strongly some people feel about cable length, I would not be surprised if it is actually a bad idea to have two different cable lengths. With that said, music is rarely perfectly balanced between the two channels anyway, and you may not even notice the cables making a difference at 2 different lengths.

Where is Ethan when we need his OPINION?

Bernard, I think I would leave them the same. Will it make a sonic difference? Hard to tell. Seems like it would not as its just IC connecting components. If it was Speaker cable I would definitely say stay the same length for timing and cues.

If resale is not a concern cut them down.

There are some here that will have a SCIENTIFIC approach but I think your OK either way !

twich54 said:

Bernard, one possible 'negative' is if and when you go to try and sell your IC's, the difference in lengths you speak of will make them damn near impossible to sell.

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Good point Dave. I think I will keep them the same. It will save me the hassle of shipping them to Cardas.

Feltran said:

My local cable dealer sold me longer (more expensive) cables as a free upgrade because he insisted that the length I was going to buy was too short to sound good.

At RMAF, at the Nordost demo, they insisted that 4m is the optimal length for cables, and every cable they were using in the demonstration was of that length, even though it was much longer than they needed. I believe they even did a demo of the same cable in 2m and 4m lengths.

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I have heard of a minimum length of 8ft for speaker cables, but this is the first I have heard of a 4m minimum for interconnects. This would get to be VERY expensive, so I'm keeping my shorter interconnects.

I tried to resist a reply but could not help myself. now a "optimum" cable length come on you guys don't really believe in this sales hype do you? it seams the cable manufactures will stop at nothing to invent more and more voodoo physics.

FISH_MAN said:

I tried to resist a reply but could not help myself. now a "optimum" cable length come on you guys don't really believe in this sales hype do you? it seams the cable manufactures will stop at nothing to invent more and more voodoo physics.

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Certainly is sales hype, especially when you look at the prices of the Nordost products. Cardas, OTOH, state that their cables (Neutral Reference, anyway) sound the same at any length.

I definitely would keep them the same length for the power amps to see the same load, capacity, etc. Maybe some electronics experts can chime in. I really would love to know if different electrical values can influence the sound.

amey01 said:

Similarly, having one speaker a few mm out of symmetery is going to have little or no effect on sound quality either, but would you leave them like that - sometimes it's not how it sounds - it's what you know!

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I have to disagree with amey01 on this one. It ALWAYS should be about how the speakers sound and NOT if they are in symmetry. And a few mm can make a huge difference in regards to imaging and musicality.

I don't know how sensitive or forgiving ML speakers are when it comes to placement (I am in the process of getting my first pair) but I can tune my current Linn speakers to a point of maximum performance and a few mm are making the difference between good sound and phenomenal sound.

In fact my Linns are not symmetrical relative to my seating position because the room acoustics make them sound much better when the right speaker is 0.5 cm closer to the rear wall than the left speaker. You can't see the difference but everybody can hear it. Pulling out the right speaker into a symmetrical position collapses the sound stage immediately. I don't want to bore you with Linn philosophy but the tunedem method is actually very helpful for finding exactly the right spots for a pair of speakers.

BillPA said:

In fact my Linns are not symmetrical relative to my seating position because the room acoustics make them sound much better when the right speaker is 0.5 cm closer to the rear wall than the left speaker. You can't see the difference but everybody can hear it. Pulling out the right speaker into a symmetrical position collapses the sound stage immediately. I don't want to bore you with Linn philosophy but the tunedem method is actually very helpful for finding exactly the right spots for a pair of speakers.

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Misunderstanding - Sorry - I didn't mean "Symmetry" as "symmetrically positioned in the room" but rather same distance from rear wall, same degree of toe-in, etc.

David Martin said:

Sound travels at about 1,000 kms per hour, or 1,000,000 metres per hour. Therefore the above discrepancy would be the equivalent of having each of your speakers a slightly different distance from you, the difference being 0.01mm, one one hundredth of a millimetre! I bet nobody on this forum is THAT fussy about speaker placement.

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It's not just the speed - I'd be more concerned with the different electrical characteristics of different lengths.

FISH_MAN said:

I tried to resist a reply but could not help myself. now a "optimum" cable length come on you guys don't really believe in this sales hype do you? it seams the cable manufactures will stop at nothing to invent more and more voodoo physics.

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haha - yes, can you imagine them winding all the circuit paths around in your amplifier to make each connection 4m in length?

Why can't they do this? Imagine how good it would sound.....barf.

Feltran said:

My local cable dealer sold me longer (more expensive) cables as a free upgrade because he insisted that the length I was going to buy was too short to sound good.

At RMAF, at the Nordost demo, they insisted that 4m is the optimal length for cables, and every cable they were using in the demonstration was of that length, even though it was much longer than they needed. I believe they even did a demo of the same cable in 2m and 4m lengths.

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I wouldn't ever buy anything from that dealer ever again!

1st rule for cables is keep them as short as possible. 2nd rule for at least speaker cable, is keep them the same length. Why do I say this? Because when I shortened some Naim cable years back the sound improved markedly. Therefore, length makes a difference (as the actress said to the bishop).

ICs normally alter the sound far less than speaker cables. But a lot of that is to do with the length - they are usually far shorter. I was amazed when Bernard said he thought they made quite a lot of difference a while back - then I found out he was using extremely long lengths, so I was not surprised.

Anything I have just said could be wrong, but then of course I know it isn't! Even if you "prove" it to me scientifically.

Ethan?

My response from April 2005...

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showpost.php?p=3749&postcount=6

Some may argue that capacitance or resistance will be different with different cable lengths (interconnect or speaker), but the difference will be way below any meaningful level. The quality of the connection between the cable and the associated component will have a bigger contribution than cable length.

User211 said:

ICs normally alter the sound far less than speaker cables. But a lot of that is to do with the length - they are usually far shorter. I was amazed when Bernard said he thought they made quite a lot of difference a while back - then I found out he was using extremely long lengths, so I was not surprised.

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Justin, I am surprised you say this as I have noticed obvious differences in even 1m lengths of ICs from the same manufacturer, but at different price levels.

Bernard said:

Justin, I am surprised you say this as I have noticed obvious differences in even 1m lengths of ICs from the same manufacturer.

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Think I have explained my stance on ICs a while ago... basically, whilst I use good quality ICs, I don't personally find the difference between different types that marked. But with speaker cable, I hear much bigger differences.

SteveInNC - yet when I shortened my speaker cable, I did hear a significant difference. Let's avoid a dot like discussion here, for Gordon's sake!

If anyone has speaker cable that they can significantly shorten (say in half), try it and report back!

User211 said:

Let's avoid a dot like discussion here, for Gordon's sake!

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Speaking of dots, I sent a PM to the guy from Marigo, requesting a cartridge dot as he said he would send one out to anyone who requested it. I received nothing. Did anyone else who requested one receive it ?

I did, and no, I didn't!