New CLX Owner

mgakathereaper said:

There is no Phono input on the 202 but I would hope it would support a turntable input. I will be calling Krell for recommendations as well. I am just trying to figure this all out before I spring for a good turntable. Thx in advance.

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That is the problem. You need a phono input for sufficient gain and de-emphasis via the RIAA curve. Vinyl is recorded with the highs boosted and the bass cut so that the highs do not get lost in noise and the bass does not take too much space on the LP.

Most likely you need a phonostage (RIAA) to get it right.

1 minute late...

Thx guys for the quick response. It looks like one more thing to add to the list...

OK. Here are some photos of the Front and Back of room to give a better visual of what I have been dealing with. I did not crop them because I wanted to show as much of the room as possible. I will of course crop and clean up for the Members Systems forum. I will also post my "Black Rack" in the Members forum.

The previous response curves are the result of this exact room setup.

Comments:

- RealTrap Mondo Bass Traps in all 4 corners of the room
- 2 RealTrap Mini-Traps on front wall behind CLX's
- 1 RealTrap Mini-Trap on side wall
- 2 RealTrap HF Traps on back wall right behind listeners
- 2 RealTrap Bass Traps on back wall next to corner traps
- Rack and components in Sunroom to the right of the system

Hopefully this will fill in the blanks from the diagram I posted earlier in this thread. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome.

excellent work my friend

congratulations on your entry to the CLX Club. At least consider a pair of moscode 402 AU bridged for mono.:music:

As an experiment I think it would be interesting to move the TV out of the room just to hear how the imaging changes, For a start try covering it with a blanket to hear the difference.

gregadd - thx for the welcome. Another tube guy I see. These look like a pretty reasonable price point versus the Jadis stuff. I will add them to my tube potential list.

Bernard - I indeed ran that experiment. In fact when I started out I removed everything including the couch, rug etc from the room and only had the CLX's on the front wall. What I learned is that for 2-Channel they do sound better without anything between them. This lead me to push my TV as far back as possible and to move my CLX's up another foot to improve the image. When I had my TV even or in front of my speakers, the image would dissipate. The way I have it setup now with the treatments and the TV location gets me pretty close to what I heard with nothing in the room. Ideally I would have a dedicated 2-Channel room with nothing between them if I wanted to get the most out of them. It was definitely a good experiment though.

not really a tube amp

It's a hybrid. OTL .Mosfet output stage. Not bothered by wicked impedance load.

Alright, as I research my turntable options I am now stuck on thinking about a proper phono pre-amp. Like anything else in audio, there are a broad range of choices. For those that own Martin Logans, are there any suggestions on what might pair the best with my CLX's?

I am considering the Spiral Groove SG-2 or the VPI HRX 12.7 as turntables but still doing my research. The Phono Pre-Amp will be feeding my Krell EVO 402 for 2-Channel.

Thanks in advance, this area is all new for me.

I think you need to also put together a short list of cartridges. Make sure there is a Koetsu in that list - perhaps an Onyx Platinum.

For preamps you could consider the ARC Reference 3/PH7 combo. Jeff (tonepub) prefers stuff from Aesthetix. Whatever you get, I do think you need some tubes in the mix.

At that price level you really should find a dealer who will let you take stuff home and try it out.

Don't forget to also pick up a record cleaner and some grubby clothes to wear when crawling around dusty used record stores.

I second the recommendation on the Aesthetix. I love my Rhea, but if your pockets are deep enough you may want to look into the Io. They may be the quietest pieces of tube gear around, tons of options from loading to gain to multiple inputs, and extreemly well made to boot.

Bernard - good suggestion on the cartridges. Another area I will need to cover. I actually had the Aesthetix Rhea on my phono list based off some reviews I saw. Your point is valid about finding a local dealer. I will have to expand my search since I am not aware of anyone "local" here in the Cleveland, OH area that actually carries this stuff. My Martin Logan dealer is very accommodating and informative but they do not stock these items. I have my share of grubby clothes but I will have to actually find a record store in my area. I am sure they exist but I have not had to look for them. Some of my dads old albums have Camelot Music stickers on them with a whopping price of $1.00 each.

MiTT - good to know you are an experienced user of the Rhea. This is a good endorsement. Some reviews mention that the Rhea is noisy. Any thoughts on this? I looked at some reviews of the IO and it seems they need a lot of knowledge and care to get the most out of them. Of course this all pays off, but I am not sure I want to have to continuously tweak or have a science project to replace a tube when it goes. Some of my hesitance is probably from lack of knowledge around tubes. I will keep the IO on the list for now.

Other Phono Pre-Amps I have read about:
- Pass Labs Xono 2
- Manley Labs Steelhead Reference
- Sutherland Ph. D.
- Whest Ps30r

Turntable, Cartridge, Phono Cables, Phono Pre-Amp, Stand... what else should be on my laundry list?

I think Bernard already mentioned it - a good record cleaner is a must if you are a serious vinylphile. I, and many others here, use a VPI 16.5, but as with everything in this great hobby, there are a miriad of possibilities.

Ah. Got it on the list. Thx MiTT.

It looks like the VPI HRX has 2 upgrade options, one is the balanced XLR junction box and the other is the 30lb super platter. Anyone here have experience with either of these upgrades? It seems the XLR junction box reduces noise and the heavier platter is supposed to create deeper bass reproduction.

Another 2 items for your list:

- Shure Stylus Force Gauge
- Onzow stylus cleaner

Both available from Acoustic Sounds.

Don't forget the spirit level.

At the level you are working with, I'd definitely make sure to get some in home demos.

The ARC Ref, the CJ ACT2/series 2, the Aesthetix Callisto and say, the BAT VK-52SE are probably four of the best preamplifiers money can buy, but I guarantee that you will prefer the sound of one over the other. There are other choices as well, but those four are all fantastic.

A very big part of making this work is going to be table/arm/cart/phono pre synergy. Once you find the right combination, you will be very excited about what's lurking in those CLX's!!

Much like driving an Audi, BMW, Mercedes or Lexus, you will really dig one of them.

As far as the phono preamps go, the two most musically revealing and dynamic that I've heard so far have been the Aesthetix IO (especially with both power supplies) and the Naim Superline with SuperCap2 power supply.

Next on the list would be the CJ TEA-1 and the BAT VK-10SE, then I'd put the ARC PH7, Nagra VPS, ASR Basis Exclusive, Aesthetix Rhea Signature and Rega Ios.

The PH7 is a good phono stage, but it does not have the sheer weight and dynamics of the Aesthetix Io or the Naim with the SuperCap2. It certainly sounds like you have the system and room to acommodate this good of an analog front end, so I'd highly suggest some in home demos.

Turntable, I'd put my money on that SG-2. Even after having the Continuum here, the SG-2 was again, more organic and musical sounding with that huge, airy presentation than the Continuum. Another great table in that realm is the SME 20/12.

However, if you can get the chance to experience the HRX from VPI, it may be your cup of tea, especially with the CLX's and Krell amps, you might find the HRX (depending on cartridge) a little to dry for your tastes, but again, it might be just what the doctor ordered.

But I can't suggest the SG-2 high enough. It is one of the most musically involving tables I've ever heard at ANY price and certainly the most rewarding table I've had the opportunity to review...

Good luck on the hunt!

One more thing on the Rhea or the Io, they can be a little noisy out of the box. Talk to either Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio or Andy at Vintage Tube services to get an awesome set of NOS tubes that are all matched and measured for the lowest noise and it will completely transform the Aesthetix phono pre's more than the other brands mentioned....

The balanced thing will give you a couple more molecules of dark background, but not all phono preamps can accommodate that. The ASR, IO and BAT will. Not a deal breaker, but if you get on a quest...

One of the most critical things at this level is setup. If you can't do it and your dealer can't, let me know, I know a couple of excellent people who can fly out to you and really dial your setup in.

mgakathereaper said:

the other is the 30lb super platter. Anyone here have experience with either of these upgrades? It seems the XLR junction box reduces noise and the heavier platter is supposed to create deeper bass reproduction.

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I have VPI's 22lb platter, which was part of the Mk IV upgrade to the HW19. It certainly improved the bass over the lighter one I was using before.

Yup - I am a heavy platter man after my Orbe platter upgrade... much better bass definition and generally a clearer sound all round. Basically, the cart picks up less vibrational feedback using one, and with acrylic, I believe the mechanical energy is dissipated as heat much more effectively.

It doesn't sound as ballsy as the Gyrodec platter, though. That can really spit fire at you - literally!!! But that's because it's misbehaving a bit compared to the heavier platter. It's all swings and roundabouts to some extent. You just need to hear some gear and decide what you like the sound of.

Anyway, it is an absolute must to get a dealer to bring some gear round. Do NOT buy the bits at your price level and hope for the best.

mgakathereaper said:

I will have to actually find a record store in my area. I am sure they exist but I have not had to look for them. Some of my dads old albums have Camelot Music stickers on them with a whopping price of $1.00 each.

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If you're ever in the Toronto area, I suggest you stop at Second Vinyl, in downtown Toronto.