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Thread: New CLX Owner

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMAUSGP View Post
    I actually read your post after I posted mine. I found it interesting that you have muscian friends that like MCH. Most of the MCH guys at my local high end shop are muscians as well. I really think it is the experience of making music with other muscians all around them in the band that makes the MCH experience what it is.
    Yeah we were posting at the same time.

    Some of my friends like aggressive MCH, some do not. But I can see their points of instruments and singers all around and it feels like they are with the band. I do not play an instrument, so I prefer the "audience" type MCH stuff.

    And again, I am not saying that 2 channel doesn't have its merits, because it does, but quite simply to dismiss MCH as gimicky without actually comparing or experiencing the difference well it is not one of the things that want to regret that I missed in life, especially if you already have a HT setup, listening to MCH is as easy as buying a Oppo Universal player for less than 2 hundred bucks. And again don't dismiss it because it is cheap, Oppo products perform way beyond their money and hey if you don't like it you can always use it to upconvert your standard DVDs to 1080P, they do that with the best of them, but on the other hand you may get multi-channel desease and then you are on another quest, looking for Mr. Goodbar or was it looking for a better sound byte, hey I am old and I have forgotten more than I can remember.
    For SACD, I only listen to Classical in MCH, all the rest of the genre's I listen to in 2CH. For my setup, my MCH is nice sounding, but does not compare to my 2CH sound quality. I just could not afford the processor(s) I wanted (Theta, Meridian) so I settled on something better than main stream receivers.

    I have an Oppo that I use for Movies and it is a great movie/DVD player. For music, considering the price, it is decent sounding. But when you are spoiled as I am with my player, the Oppo just sounds radio-ish when used for music.

    But I would agree with you, for those interested, the Oppo is a great, cheap way to try out MCH. But then you need surround speakers, amps, processors, etc. A receiver can give you some ideas of the sound, but going the dedicated processor route with dedicated amps is a better way to go - IMO.

  2. #32
    Super User Bernard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMAUSGP View Post
    Bernard,

    Now it sounds like you are making excuses. Don't listen to MCH, don't do it. It is something you will regret for the rest of your life. Don't listen to these people don't do it.
    Making excuses ? At the very start I said, "I don't have a closed mind, so convince me, you multi-channel aficionados."

    Hey, maybe this is my chance to conduct the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra in Beethoven's Ninth! Now if only the musicians would obey my commands !!!

  3. #33
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    The latest update on delivery:

    "The wood ordered was not up to spec and we had to order a new batch to build your speakers. They should ship next week and be delivered by the end of the week."

    So it looks like no dice for this weekend. The waiting game continues...

  4. #34
    Forum Administrator twich54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    Hey, maybe this is my chance to conduct the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra in Beethoven's Ninth!
    Well at least it will fit on a 74 min Cd !!
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    Senior Member JMAUSGP's Avatar
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    DTB300,

    Have you ever auditioned the McCormack MAP-1 or UDP-1? Not a lot of money, but when it comes to Surround Sound, WOW. When you listen to them you will understand why many have called Steve McCormack and audio engineering genius. On the MAP-1 preamp his Ambient Recovery Management system or ARM circuit is amazing. Cost is maybe 2 grand and the UDP-1 is quite the universal player that matches up with the MAP-1. Conrad now owns McCormack but the designs are still true to Steve's original intent. Just a thought next time you are out listening to something, if they have McCormack put on a two channel source and engage the ARM circuit with a good surround system, it is worth the experience.

  6. #36
    Senior Member JMAUSGP's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear your CLX are not on the way. Unbelievably, I just got a call from my ML dealer and my new Descent i just came in with the CLX card. Looks like the Sunfire Signature EQ is moving upstairs. That pretty much shoots my weekend, I had lots of plans, but as we all know here, Music First!

  7. #37
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    On the topic of Turntables...

    I have done some preliminary research while waiting for my speakers and it looks like the VPI HRX Reference Turntable gets some pretty good reviews. Anyone here agree or disagree with this initial pick? Would I be better off starting at a lower price point VPI? It looks like the VPI Aries 3 also gets good reviews.

    Just trying to determine options at this point.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMAUSGP View Post
    Have you ever auditioned the McCormack MAP-1 or UDP-1? Not a lot of money, but when it comes to Surround Sound, WOW. When you listen to them you will understand why many have called Steve McCormack and audio engineering genius.
    Very familiar with the UDP-1 and Deluxe. I had compared my previous modded player against the UDP-1 or Deluxe (I cannot remember which one) at an audio store and they were very similar in sound to all of us there. CJ did the mods for the Deluxe if I am not mistaken. UDP was around $3.5k list I believe and the mods were an additional $600

    On the MAP-1 preamp his Ambient Recovery Management system or ARM circuit is amazing. Cost is maybe 2 grand and the UDP-1 is quite the universal player that matches up with the MAP-1. Conrad now owns McCormack but the designs are still true to Steve's original intent. Just a thought next time you are out listening to something, if they have McCormack put on a two channel source and engage the ARM circuit with a good surround system, it is worth the experience.
    There are some good sounding circuits for adding/enhancing sounds like the McCormack AMP and Meridian Tri-Field. While they can be nice, I am more of a purist and listen to what is presented either 2CH, 4CH, or 5CH.

  9. #39
    Forum Moderator MiTT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgakathereaper View Post
    On the topic of Turntables...

    I have done some preliminary research while waiting for my speakers and it looks like the VPI HRX Reference Turntable gets some pretty good reviews. Anyone here agree or disagree with this initial pick? Would I be better off starting at a lower price point VPI? It looks like the VPI Aries 3 also gets good reviews.

    Just trying to determine options at this point.
    I think the VPI's offer great value in general and are good solid "non-tweaker" turntables. Once you get the initial setup right you don't have to fiddle with it much, and even if you do want to adjust VTA you can do it on the fly with any of the JMW-12, 10 and new "Super" 9 arms. The Scout series offer an extraordinary upgrade path. I own an original Aries table and I love it. Dave (Twich54) has the Aries 3. If I had the coin though I'd seriously go after the HRX. It's articulate, has stunningly good deep bass and Industrial Design second to none in my book.

    Cost no object I'd go after a DaVinci, Fleikert, TW Raven or Walker personally. If the sky was really the limit I'd look at Rockport or Continueum; but that's well into 6 figure territory.

    Real world though - I'd be proud to own an HRX.
    Last edited by MiTT; 12-05-2008 at 03:16 PM.
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  10. #40
    Forum Administrator twich54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgakathereaper View Post
    On the topic of Turntables...

    It looks like the VPI Aries 3 also gets good reviews.

    Just trying to determine options at this point.

    first off....welcome !

    As a Aries III owner (as Tim said earlier and noted in my system page) I can say without reservation it has met or exceeded all my expectations.

    If I had "silly money" to spend I suppose I would buy the 'top of heap' SME table (30/2 I believe), but the reality is I will lovingly live with my Aries III for a long...long time !
    Last edited by twich54; 12-05-2008 at 05:10 PM.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTB300 View Post
    DSOTM will have instruments etc. in the surround channels - to me this is GIMMICKY. When I listen to live music, I do not sit in the middle of the band, I sit in the audience. For me properly done MCH music uses the surrounds for ambiance, hall, venue sound additions. This is why I like Classical SACD's the best - but they too can get very aggressive with the surround channels.

    So it is really a matter of experience and personal preferences for MCH. But when done correctly it can be amazing. Update: And I also feel (based on my experiences) surround speakers should be full range and not these little things you see used by most.


    But while sitting there, the influence of the hall/venue does have an affect on how and what you are hearing. This is where MCH SACD when done properly (my opinion on "properly") will give you more of the "you are there" than 2ch will.


    To me (my opinion again) this does not equate to good MCH sound. When the album is done properly and the surround channel setup is done properly, you do not even realize the surround channels are playing. But change from MCH to 2CH on your player and you will see/hear the differences and what you are missing - everything just collapses forward and inward.
    Dan, what you say captures it perfectly! Bernard, once you experience an excellent multi-channel recording, please re-read Dan's post as it is right on the money. This is not about sound engineers playing around to trip you out, but capturing as much of the performance as possible.

    When I heard Peter McGrath (audio recording engineer and Wilson marketing VP) a few months ago, he played the stuff he recorded on all 4 channels and then just the 2 rear channels. There is a LOT of musical information there.

  12. #42
    Senior Member RichTeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgakathereaper View Post
    On the topic of Turntables...

    I have done some preliminary research while waiting for my speakers and it looks like the VPI HRX Reference Turntable gets some pretty good reviews. Anyone here agree or disagree with this initial pick? Would I be better off starting at a lower price point VPI? It looks like the VPI Aries 3 also gets good reviews.

    Just trying to determine options at this point.
    Depends what your budget is. I'd also seriously consider SME's turntables and arms if I were you. The Model 10 is about the same as the HRX, IIRC.

  13. #43
    Senior Member RichTeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiTT View Post
    Cost no object I'd go after a DaVinci, Fleikert, TW Raven or Walker personally. If the sky was really the limit I'd look at Rockport or Continueum; but that's well into 6 figure territory.

    Real world though - I'd be proud to own an HRX.
    I'd add the SME Model 30/2 to that list, or if funds are not quite generous enough for the 30/2, I'd consider the SME Model 20/2 + SME Series V arm.

    I don't think the Rockport System III Serius is in production any more--but I suppose if someone were to wave enough shekels under Andy's nose he'd oblidge. :-)

  14. #44
    Senior Member tonepub's Avatar
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    The SME and the VPI sound completely different.

    Should you go down the SME road, the iV.Vi is a newer version of the arm, using a slightly different spring system to set the tracking force. The iV.Vi is a little zippier sounding than the V, being a little bit darker. Both excellent, but the tonality will be up to what you finally end up loving.

    SME 10 is a great table, had one for about a year and a half, I ended up trying the iV.Vi and V arms on it, as opposed to the stock arm that is slightly better than the standard 309, but still has a removable headshell.

    The 20.2 is bigger and has a lot more weight than the 10, but a lot more money...

    I love SME, but if you are buying new, consider the TW-Acustic Raven. If you only need one arm (the Raven One), you can buy one of these for about $6500, add your favorite arm and be knocking on the door of the SME 20.2 for a lot less money. You can also add a second arm board to the Raven One and make it a Raven TWO, with two arms. This is an interesting setup if you really become a vinyl nut.

    But the table I have to say I'm really in love with (as much as I've enjoyed the SME and the Raven) is the Spiral Groove SG-2. This is about 20k with a TriPlanar Mk 7 arm and is one of the most musical tables I've heard at ANY price. We had it side by side with the 60k Continuum Criterion and everyone preferred the SG-2.

    I may be buying the review sample, so if you want to come to Portland...

    It's some of the best analog I've ever had the privilege to experience.

    Or if you aren't going to get too carried away, a Rega P9 with a Skala or Dynavector XV-1s will give you a good taste of what the big boy tables will do for about 9000 bucks and only takes about 15 min to setup! I'll be buried with my P9 for sure!

    (yes, I have way too many turntables....)

    Good luck on the hunt. Decide how much fussing and tinkering you want to do before you decide on the table...

  15. #45
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    Pst - don't tell Michael Fremer...

    I'm a huge sucker for TT aesthetics. If you feel the same way, maybe look at models from Transrotor and Clearaudio. Google for their websites. They will still chuck in excellent performances, I suspect.
    Last edited by User211; 12-06-2008 at 06:08 AM.

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