Michigan get together III

CAP explains the finer points about his rig.

Check out the very little toe-in CAP uses.

VanDaRo said:

Check out the very little toe-in CAP uses.

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It looks like toe-out !

VanDaRo said:

Thanks again CAP, for an afternoon well-spent. The food and the beers were great, but the highlight of the day was listening to the wicked CLS's. Of course, tomorrow I'll have to fiddle-f**k around with my system to see if I can get some more soundstage depth out of it -- your rig is probably one of the best I've ever heard in this regard.

The complete lack of "solid state etch" was a real treat too. Personally, I like a system that highlights its' resolution upon me, but listening to some of those last few CDs may cause me to rethink this point... I'll never be a tube-junkie, but detailed and smooth sure has a way of drawing you in.

Anyway, I figured that I'd post up some of the pictures that I took. My camera is a complete POS in anything other than well lit situations, so no giving me grief for the graininess of some of the shots !! LOL !!

~VDR

THIS SUB IS HUGE !! VanDaRo at almost 6'3" next to it.

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Thanks VAN. The depth of stage is something the CLS can do. Even a bigger room would benefit them greatly ! The farther I pull them out the deeper it gets but I run out of seat space and such. A BIG room these babies will shine !

The Krell synergy can prove many wrong that tubes are needed. !

The sub is a real fooler as its a 15 inch driver that acts like a 10 . It is realy tight and fast .

Detailed and smooth is what we all try for . Thank you for the kind words and I hope you had a great time ! I sure did. It was a pleasure meeting you. I will come to your place on my travels through town for a listen.

Bernard said:

It looks like toe-out !

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Its actually the Picture. Funny thing you said that as BOB(Kruppy said the same thing sitting and listening) . As I stated to him they are actually 3/8 toed in from their positions. It has a way of fooling you with its wider footprint. With the CLS , You do not need much if any TOE. The large panel spreads it deep and wide as VAN said.

Chris,
I have to say your system has definitely taken a huge step forward. I just wish my visit had not been so short. As you already know, I would like to (and expect to) spend some more quality time soaking in some tunes.

The one thing that I really have to comment about is the finish of Chris' CLSs. They are truely beautiful speakers. He refinished them himself in a nice satin almost flat hand rubbed finish. I much prefer this over a gloss finish. Personally, I would shy away from doing some thing like this myself for fear of destroying a work of art.

It was also nice to meet VanDaRo and Ckoffend (Chis and Matt, I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong). Too bad Ken and George weren't able to make this session. I would have liked to hear George's comments and to have gotten another one of Ken's get together cds.

Don't forget, send me the link to your sub kit. This might be an inexpensive way for me to add some low end to my system.

C.A.P said:

Its as smooth as silk with a somewhat vinyl sound to it ! Best part is we have a few turntable gurus coming to listen too.

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This is implying that "vinyl is good" ....what did the turntable gurus have to say about it?

When I see a system that seems to have the resolving power of yours, I always lament that fact that there is no vinyl for direct comparison.

Although there was no Vinyl for comparison. The comments mostly heard was how deep and solid the sound stage was. There was one statement by CLSIIstatman that said there was much more bass and detail in a Roxy Music Song than on his LP. Remember audio is in the EAR of the beholder !

I was busy with the Longbow shoot last weekend had a great time then my puter had a hicuup just getting on now I need details. how big were the burgers? how cold was the beer? and how was the sound?

The Sound ??


Bear in mind that my rig sounds very different from CAPs... Still a "Martin Logan" sound, but presented in a totally different way.

My system is hotter on the top and bottom ends. That is to say, more "in your face" and solid state "etch" in the treble, and more low frequency interaction with the sub below 50 Hz.... But these are not necessarily good or bad -- more a matter of personal taste and limitations of my source components and room. Think of it as this: Mine is a band in a smoke-filled night club, Chris' is the same band in a concert theater.

CAP's system has very few limitations. It can play loud and thump-y if you gronk on the volume level, but I don't make a habit of testing other peoples' dynamic range or amplifier capacity !! I waited for someone else to hammer on the level control !! LOL !!

His system has a stage depth that is undoubtedly world-class. Its' depth-of-field really blew me away within 30 seconds of playing a CD that I was extremely familiar with. And I told him so... The tonal balance was different than mine and even my neighbors' Thiel 7.2 based system. Chris' rig threw a very wide, walk-into-it sound stage that is typical of the larger electrostatics from ML, but not as much "air" or "dead space" between the instruments as the Rowland/Thiel system down the road. Again, this is a characteristic of the CLSs'. Buy the CLS for huge staging, the Thiel if you want to impress your friends with laser-like image placement.

A few hours later, he played me a Natelie Cole CD that defined "reference". Having been to the Las Vegas CES show numerous times, I gotta tell ya that shocking me with that sort of sound is hard to do... and I nearly $hit myself. Chris deserves a lot of credit for putting together the system that he has. In many ways it is REFERENCE LEVEL. Get out here to Michigan and hear it some day !!

As for the food and beer...well, providing cold beers and tasty food is a damn-sight easier than building a state-of-the-art HiFi system. And CAP, with a little help from his ol' lady, did not disappoint in the chow department ( SPICY !! ).


I greatly look forward to the Michigan fellas coming over to my place sometime soon and letting me know just WTF I need to work on. I don't think that my system will ever sound like a tube-based system or throw a 50 -foot deep stage like CAPs CLS'. But the Sequel IIs have served me well for many years( even though they languished in boxes in the basement for over 5 years ). When they go up sale, they will be replaced with something that is a lot easier to integrate into a room than these narrow-paneled Logans of yore.... Until then, I'll do the best that I can and love every minute of it.

~VDR

Kenscollick said:

I was busy with the Longbow shoot last weekend had a great time then my puter had a hicuup just getting on now I need details. how big were the burgers? how cold was the beer? and how was the sound?

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Ken You are 15 min away! You Know you are welcome any time you want to come over, Just call me.

Thanks VAN for the very kind words. The Natalie Cole track is a fine recording that brings the CLS to their potential. As stated by Van the depth of stage still amazes me at times. What really made a huge difference that is the CAST cabling that the Krell system has unique to them. It was good with my Kimber Balanced cables but once the CAST came into play the stage just went 2 foot deeper and 2 feet wider with much more detailed and precise imaging. If I only had another 15 feet of room I think it would even be better. These babies love large rooms with a big amp.

C.A.P said:

but once the CAST came into play the stage just went 2 foot deeper and 2 feet wider with much more detailed and precise imaging.

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What is special about CAST ?

Its a Proprietary interconnect system from Krell that transfers the signal in a Current mode versus a voltage mode normally done. CAST = Current Audio Signal .

Bernard said:

This is implying that "vinyl is good" ....what did the turntable gurus have to say about it?

When I see a system that seems to have the resolving power of yours, I always lament that fact that there is no vinyl for direct comparison.

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I hate typing long diatribes but here's my impressions:

1) CAPS system is the most fatigue free digital that I've heard. Yes it shares many of the virtues of good analog, but was a bit dark in tonal balance.

2) Putting the CLS on well designed stands,(good job Chris) is definitely the way to go in achieving proper soundstaging. His cls's excel here.

3) To clarify the Roxy Manifesto comment, I mentioned that the LP was also somewhat weak in the bass.

4) I definitely need some dedicated lines to my equipment - all my stuff is plugged in to an Isobar on one line including 2 power amps, A big no no!

To summarize, I enjoyed Chris's rig very much. I regret that I couldn't have stayed longer - some good stuff was being played that brought out the best in his CLS.
BTW, I was impressed with the way that servo sub integrated with the panels.

CLS2ASTAT said:

I hate typing long diatribes but here's my impressions:

1) CAPS system is the most fatigue free digital that I've heard. Yes it shares many of the virtues of good analog, but was a bit dark in tonal balance.

2) Putting the CLS on well designed stands,(good job Chris) is definitely the way to go in achieving proper soundstaging. His cls's excel here.

3) To clarify the Roxy Manifesto comment, I mentioned that the LP was also somewhat weak in the bass.

4) I definitely need some dedicated lines to my equipment - all my stuff is plugged in to an Isobar on one line including 2 power amps, A big no no!

To summarize, I enjoyed Chris's rig very much. I regret that I couldn't have stayed longer - some good stuff was being played that brought out the best in his CLS.
BTW, I was impressed with the way that servo sub integrated with the panels.

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Thanks for the kind words Jerry ! I do believe what you said is a factor in the way things sound. The stands are a huge part of the picture. The Sub does a great job of hiding it self until needed. The Dedicated lines were a mod that I felt may have played into the whole . I do not know if it was something I could have ever heard by itself.

The FPB300cx and the KPS25sc mating together with CAST and the Mook Audio Speaker cables really make a great team. If you guys remember I had a pair of Transparent Ultra speaker cables that were sidelined by the MOOK audio cables. (Transparent Ultra run $2900 a 8 ft set). Transparent were good , but they just were not as detailed as the MOOK cables. I will be doing some more room treatments to better the in the near future.

C.A.P said:

Where is George ?

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I've been in Portland, Oregon for the past three weeks on vacation and checking out the work climate over there. Looks like you guys had some fun while I was away, wish I could have made it.