McCain and Obama

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I've practically given up on our political system. Most people don't even bother to vote, so we get the leadership we deserve. Neither of these two are the leaders we need, in my opinion. Our country is getting deeper in debt, yet where is the plan from either to reverse that trend? Gas prices are going up, furthering our indebtedness, yet where are their plans to drill and build the refineries for the oil we have in our own country? We know we have enough to last for hundreds of years. I do know one thing. The right is paranoid. I receive at least 100 hate emails against Obama for every one I receive against McCain. What's even worse, when I verify the "facts" in these emails, I find that every one is false, or at the most, a half-truth.
 
I've practically given up on our political system. Most people don't even bother to vote, so we get the leadership we deserve. Neither of these two are the leaders we need, in my opinion. Our country is getting deeper in debt, yet where is the plan from either to reverse that trend? Gas prices are going up, furthering our indebtedness, yet where are their plans to drill and build the refineries for the oil we have in our own country? We know we have enough to last for hundreds of years. I do know one thing. The right is paranoid. I receive at least 100 hate emails against Obama for every one I receive against McCain. What's even worse, when I verify the "facts" in these emails, I find that every one is false, or at the most, a half-truth.



I've been getting those from a member from another forum who is labled a conservative living and working in England! The one factor that no one will seem to want to admit here is RACE. There are a lot of people that will never vote for Obama because of the fact he is black. The 60 minutes piece was great when they interviewed the two White guys who even after the week after the Obama and Reverend Wright controversy wouldn't vote for him becasue they though he was Muslim! Those of you that are fortunate enough to travel or live outside the USA have an idea of what I'm referring to? Why is it I'm able to go to Europe and get treated nicer than I am here in my own country?

This country is still afraid to really tackle the one issue that has hurt this country the most, and until we all do we are spinning our wheels. How in the Hell do you expect a foreign country to look at us with admiration and respect when we are still pretending to be "the melting pot" with so many unresolved issues still here to deal with such as racial division.The OJ Simpson trial was a prime example. Did you notice the polarization of the country at that time? Yes I am Black and a conservative in case you haven't noticed, and yes he did it and was guilty. LOL


The one thing Obama has in his favour is that he has walked both sides of the fence having bi-racial parents. You do get a different outlook on life and race because you get to hear it from both sides. Both candidates are weak in certain areas and not my necessarily my first choices but that's what available at the present time. Just my 2 cents.
 
I would be willing to bet that most audiophiles are for Obama. Most audiophileis the upscale, educated, white, male voter he has had the most support from. He is having problems with women over 40 who like the maverick in McCain, and the less educated whites, who do not relate to him.

Sorry, you really are way off. I am retired military, educated, drive a big Range Rover SUV and love my guns; yet I can enjoy (appreciate) when my Logans disappear into a room with the best of you. I may only be considered an audio enthusiast by some, but by those that know me I am 100% Republican.

I was a diplomatic bodyguard for Obama's previous visit to Iraq. I found him to be arrogant, full of himself in person and not very pleasant to the "help". And on the whole smoking issue, he smoked cigars in the Green Zone.

I do wish the GOP could find stronger candidates, but I respect McCain for the mere fact that he survived as a POW. I am sure my views are stronger due to my 20 years of service; but I know many that have given their all without complaint.

So see, you can be a knuckle-dragger and still have class and style.

Lee
 
I am a sad republican!

what can I say the older I get the more I hate all politicians.
 
Sorry, you really are way off. I am retired military, educated, drive a big Range Rover SUV and love my guns; yet I can enjoy (appreciate) when my Logans disappear into a room with the best of you. I may only be considered an audio enthusiast by some, but by those that know me I am 100% Republican.

I was a diplomatic bodyguard for Obama's previous visit to Iraq. I found him to be arrogant, full of himself in person and not very pleasant to the "help". And on the whole smoking issue, he smoked cigars in the Green Zone.

I do wish the GOP could find stronger candidates, but I respect McCain for the mere fact that he survived as a POW. I am sure my views are stronger due to my 20 years of service; but I know many that have given their all without complaint.

So see, you can be a knuckle-dragger and still have class and style.

Lee

First off, I would like to thank you for your service. Second, I would like to thank you for your opinion of the trip. I have read a few articles interviewing Democrats and Republicans alike; they expressed the same “arrogance” perceived from Obama. I especially don’t understand why he would break off a trip to visit wounded soldiers because he could not have video or cameras (he instead went to exercise and play basketball). That is probably his only real negative from his trip.
 
I have to chime in. Regardless of what political affiliation we have, I strongly recommend everybody read (or re-read) Orwell's Animal Farm. What I see is a bunch of smooth-talking, arrogant, power-hungry Napoleons telling us, sometimes LITERALLY "we know what's best for you" as they give their speeches, then roll up, limousine chauffered, at "fund raisers", crowing to their colleagues how they feel the pain of the "little people". And they got there by a bad combination of voter apathy and well-meaning Badgers who think that who they vote for will do some good and make a difference.
And I'm not taking sides in this.
Obama scares me. Think if Reagan, during his Presidential campaign, had been found out he regularly went to radical right-wing rallies, or sermons at a church of a radical right-wing minister, then said "Oh, I didn't know that was being said or I didn't hear that"... if the press got hold of something like that, even if they were on his side, Reagan never would've been President. Yet Obama claims ignorance, said he rejected Wright's views, only when he was confronted BTW, and the press and the public continue to coo over him.
McCain scares me. I think he's more consistent in his views vs. Obama, but where's the in-your-face strength of past Republican or conservative Democrat Presidents? And he's backed off on cutting taxes. People complain about his age, but in the historical record of this country, he's hardly unique in that regard.
Short term, things don't look good for us I think. No matter who gets into the White House, if they get half of what they want approved, we on the streets could lose $250 - $600 / month in new and extra taxes, and that's in a bad economy. And very probably get nothing accomplished. There's also the special gas tax of .53 / gal to pay for global warming being proposed. Think of what THAT would do on its OWN! If it weren't for the fact that my car came off it's loan in February, and that I have a motorcycle to save on fuel with, I would literally not be able to afford to get to work with the gas prices as they are. And it's that way for a whole lot of us "little people" be it gas or utilities costs. The Napoleons in Washington talk smoothly of saving the world and us from ourselves but we don't have the economy or the tax base (because most of us couldn't pay it) to do what they so self-confidently talk about doing. To get things done we need a massive overhaul of our government on all levels. Raising income taxes or fees or the inheritance tax will not accomplish anything with an infrastructure that seems ready to collapse under it's own weight. I heard a politician on the radio say "we need a progressively scaling tax increase every year because it stimulates the economy." Yeah, stimulates THEIRS! Who was his economics prof? Trotsky? Marx? I wish to God I'd caught his name, but I didn't.
We're already basically paying off the government from January through June, which is bad enough, but it seems over the next few years they're going to extend that through September.
I don't want to come off as a radical. What I see going on in this country frustrates me to tears however. I wasn't born here. I see it all from a somewhat different view. For what it's worth, check out the situation in Europe. People are getting sick of the same old dogma and they're voting the bums out for at least more centrist governments. What's happening in the UK is awesome. The Labour Party are getting whooped at all levels because the "little people" are sick of them!:rocker: But that might be construed as personal bias.... okay my press secretary will come up to the podium now to do some bow-and-scrape spin-doctoring to get my poll numbers back up while my (now late) limousine picks me up for a... um... "fund raiser".......:D
Allright, back to some music!
 
I have to chime in. Regardless of what political affiliation we have, I strongly recommend everybody read (or re-read) Orwell's Animal Farm. What I see is a bunch of smooth-talking, arrogant, power-hungry Napoleons telling us, sometimes LITERALLY "we know what's best for you" as they give their speeches, then roll up, limousine chauffered, at "fund raisers", crowing to their colleagues how they feel the pain of the "little people". And they got there by a bad combination of voter apathy and well-meaning Badgers who think that who they vote for will do some good and make a difference.
And I'm not taking sides in this.
Obama scares me. Think if Reagan, during his Presidential campaign, had been found out he regularly went to radical right-wing rallies, or sermons at a church of a radical right-wing minister, then said "Oh, I didn't know that was being said or I didn't hear that"... if the press got hold of something like that, even if they were on his side, Reagan never would've been President. Yet Obama claims ignorance, said he rejected Wright's views, only when he was confronted BTW, and the press and the public continue to coo over him.
McCain scares me. I think he's more consistent in his views vs. Obama, but where's the in-your-face strength of past Republican or conservative Democrat Presidents? And he's backed off on cutting taxes. People complain about his age, but in the historical record of this country, he's hardly unique in that regard.
Short term, things don't look good for us I think. No matter who gets into the White House, if they get half of what they want approved, we on the streets could lose $250 - $600 / month in new and extra taxes, and that's in a bad economy. And very probably get nothing accomplished. There's also the special gas tax of .53 / gal to pay for global warming being proposed. Think of what THAT would do on its OWN! If it weren't for the fact that my car came off it's loan in February, and that I have a motorcycle to save on fuel with, I would literally not be able to afford to get to work with the gas prices as they are. And it's that way for a whole lot of us "little people" be it gas or utilities costs. The Napoleons in Washington talk smoothly of saving the world and us from ourselves but we don't have the economy or the tax base (because most of us couldn't pay it) to do what they so self-confidently talk about doing. To get things done we need a massive overhaul of our government on all levels. Raising income taxes or fees or the inheritance tax will not accomplish anything with an infrastructure that seems ready to collapse under it's own weight. I heard a politician on the radio say "we need a progressively scaling tax increase every year because it stimulates the economy." Yeah, stimulates THEIRS! Who was his economics prof? Trotsky? Marx? I wish to God I'd caught his name, but I didn't.
We're already basically paying off the government from January through June, which is bad enough, but it seems over the next few years they're going to extend that through September.
I don't want to come off as a radical. What I see going on in this country frustrates me to tears however. I wasn't born here. I see it all from a somewhat different view. For what it's worth, check out the situation in Europe. People are getting sick of the same old dogma and they're voting the bums out for at least more centrist governments. What's happening in the UK is awesome. The Labour Party are getting whooped at all levels because the "little people" are sick of them!:rocker: But that might be construed as personal bias.... okay my press secretary will come up to the podium now to do some bow-and-scrape spin-doctoring to get my poll numbers back up while my (now late) limousine picks me up for a... um... "fund raiser".......:D
Allright, back to some music!

All I am saying is make the people who can afford more, pay more. Roll back Bush's tax break to the richest 1% and make them pay more.

If I have to pay more for gas because it is better for the enviroment than so be it. $4 dollar gas is good. Americans drove 9.5 billion miles less in May than the year prior. Our wasteful society needs to get a gut check.

I feel very sorry for the working poor! I have not been in that situation for a lot of years but have compassion for it. I used to be a machine shop worker for many years (making less than $30k as a single parent) and got lucky starting a construction business that became pretty successful.

If my taxes go up $600 a month that's good. As long as we pay for poor kids school lunches, education, enviroment and mental health programs I am all for it. My fear is it will go to more war if McCain becomes president.
 
Sorry, you really are way off. I am retired military, educated, drive a big Range Rover SUV and love my guns; yet I can enjoy (appreciate) when my Logans disappear into a room with the best of you. I may only be considered an audio enthusiast by some, but by those that know me I am 100% Republican.

I was a diplomatic bodyguard for Obama's previous visit to Iraq. I found him to be arrogant, full of himself in person and not very pleasant to the "help". And on the whole smoking issue, he smoked cigars in the Green Zone.

I do wish the GOP could find stronger candidates, but I respect McCain for the mere fact that he survived as a POW. I am sure my views are stronger due to my 20 years of service; but I know many that have given their all without complaint.

So see, you can be a knuckle-dragger and still have class and style.

Lee

Lee,

I certainly did not mean all. But I do believe that most audiophiles are on the left. Last I heard, McCain had a 10 point lead in the Men over 40 category.

Since you are from Colorado, which way do you think Colorado will go? It used to be a solid red state, but now seems purple.

Also, what 's the chance of extracting oil in Colorado?
 
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Lee,

I certainly did not mean all. But I do believe that most audiophiles are on the left. Last I heard, McCain had a 10 point lead in the Men over 40 category.

Since you are from Colorado, which way do you think Colorado will go? It used to be a solid red state, but now seems purple.

Also, what 's the chance of extracting oil in Colorado?

It's weird that a bunch of rich guys would be republican. That is totally not the stereotype. :devil:
 
All I am saying is make the people who can afford more, pay more. Roll back Bush's tax break to the richest 1% and make them pay more.

If I have to pay more for gas because it is better for the enviroment than so be it. $4 dollar gas is good. Americans drove 9.5 billion miles less in May than the year prior. Our wasteful society needs to get a gut check.

I feel very sorry for the working poor! I have not been in that situation for a lot of years but have compassion for it. I used to be a machine shop worker for many years (making less than $30k as a single parent) and got lucky starting a construction business that became pretty successful.

If my taxes go up $600 a month that's good. As long as we pay for poor kids school lunches, education, enviroment and mental health programs I am all for it. My fear is it will go to more war if McCain becomes president.

We pay enough in taxes.

How about talking about REDUCING SPENDING FOR ONCE.

The wealthiest 5-10% of Americans already pay a substantial portion of the taxes. The money is there, but a tremendous amount is wasted. Government's role needs to be reduced, and that's the problem. No where in the Constitution - NO WHERE! - is it stated that the Gov't is responsible for health care, lunches for poor people, and God-knows-what else in terms of entitlements.

You want more Taxes? Really? Why is that some of the biggest states are broke year after year? Why is that California is always in the red despite having a tax base larger than many other countries around the world.

Taxes aren't the answer - but making the Gov't smaller and more efficient is the key.

Get out of our lives!!!
 
Well said Erik !!

Diamonds, I'm some what suprised that a self-employed person like yourself would cry...."pay more taxes". One of the more ludicrous statements that I've seen lately. This country has more hand-outs and free lunches than one can imagine, our welfare system is a joke, so raising taxes IS NOT THE ANSWER, rather as Erik stated, MORE RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE MANAGMENT by our Gov't IS the answer !!

Remember this , yes President Bush has been a poor leader and while it's easy to direct and channel the blame towards one man the root problem in this country of ours is our Senate and Hse of Rep. For it is our legeslative body of gov't that is a bonifide disgrace.

So lets not "hang out" far left or right but rather meet in the middle and get something accomplished !
 
We pay enough in taxes.

How about talking about REDUCING SPENDING FOR ONCE.

The wealthiest 5-10% of Americans already pay a substantial portion of the taxes. The money is there, but a tremendous amount is wasted. Government's role needs to be reduced, and that's the problem. No where in the Constitution - NO WHERE! - is it stated that the Gov't is responsible for health care, lunches for poor people, and God-knows-what else in terms of entitlements.

You want more Taxes? Really? Why is that some of the biggest states are broke year after year? Why is that California is always in the red despite having a tax base larger than many other countries around the world.

Taxes aren't the answer - but making the Gov't smaller and more efficient is the key.

Get out of our lives!!!

What people do not understand is that the quick fixes to not work. It has been proven time and again that lowering taxes actually increases tax revenue. The so call “rich”, the people that re-invest and provide opportunity, are getting their growth hand-cuffed by the taxes and the federal government. Lets break this down:

1) High taxes = less money for large and small companies to re-invest = smaller growth = small tax revenue with a high tax rate

2) Lower taxes = companies re-invest in resources, technology, and PEOPLE = larger growth = HIGH tax revenue at a smaller percentage = more low/middle/high income people with jobs (more heads paying fed/state income tax) = more Martin Logan purchases ;o)

I will take my company as an example. GE Healthcare was making waves in the healthcare market diagnosing people early and preventing disease from going untreated until it is too late. Then lawmakers decided they needed to regulate when diagnostic imaging needed to be done and the amount of compensation for those procedures. What does that mean? Well, a reduction of workforce across the board, new technology development was slowed, etc. (basically scenario 1 from above).

How is it that the private sector can be so resilient when facing these obstacles? It is due to the simple fact that the private sector is forced to adapt to stay alive. Do more with less, find new ways of approaching problems, and use your MIND to solve problems. Why is so much of that philosophy lost in our electorate, schools, and other public services? Money is not an issue, they get more and more of mine every year, but it is what my representatives decide to do with that money that needs fixing. Why is it a crime to ask a public department to work with the same budget this year (adjusted for inflation)?
 
1. In this new world with our technology and world economy the US can not be a lone wolf. We need other countries to succeed. We also need other countries to buy American goods which they don't, we need other countries to sell us oil which to keep prices low to stop hurting the working poor.

1a. We need to start to make relations with countries such as Iran to keep the world peaceful through talking and not through made up wars filled of lies a deceit of the American public. (Talking? That is exactly what they want us to think. Iran or Israel is going to wait about 2 weeks after Obama or McCain are in office to push their hand. One is going to shoot a missile, etc. and see how we react. Are we going to be a strong ally to Israel, or are we going to sit down, talk, and wait until we are attacked again from extremists.)

2. If you look at history the senate's approval rating democrat or republican lingers well below 50%. The reason for this is because of its bipartisan politics.
The democrats cannot get anything through the senate because King Bush will veto it. Any news organization will tell you that the republicans are set to loose about 20 more seats in the house and 5 to 7 seats in the senate and those are conservative numbers. I do not think the Americans are placing blame on the newly elected democrats.

2a. Bush has the lowest approval rating of any president including Jimmy Carter in more than 65 years. He was put there by the people to uphold our ideals and make this country better. He has simply not done that and is the worst president in my lifetime (Yes Jimmy Carter was also terrible). Bush's big screw ups:
a. Iraq War
1. Took focus of Afghanistan (Take a look at the geographical location of Iraq in the Middle East. They did have an Al-Qaeda stronghold in that entire area until this war started. Wiping out that threat has set the tone to a cowardly, nontraditional enemy of the rest of the world. How do you sit down and talk with a group of people that even bomb India? What has India done to the world, they are the most peaceful people around?)
2. Did not find Bin Laden
b. Economy
1. A whole lot more poor people today
c. Katrina (Yes, the only mistake the government made with Katrina was to pour a load of money into unregulated hands. Actually trying to be accountable from the beginning made the President and other Republicans look harsh. There are still people living in hotels and FEMA trailers with no intention of finding work, what do you do with those people?) d. Budget Deficit
e. Huge tax breaks to the richest 1%
f. Movement towards more censorship
g. Increase in poverty in the US.
1. Took school lunch programs away from poor kids
h. Environment policies or lack there of (Wow, lets take a look at how global economy works and where we are pushing ourselves. Nothing we do here in regards to energy will have any effect if China is not put in check. Excessive mandatory regulation in the US will actually INCREASE pollution levels on the global scale. Look at the Kyoto protocol; China is not even on the list. In the 1970’s they set out to increase their industry as possible so they could under-cut the entire world with tons of products at cheap prices. Now, what is a US or European industrial company to do when crazy, excessive regulation is imposed on there production? Simple, they will move their outfit to China or some other non-regulated country and conduct production however they want. You have to put on a mask just to breath when walking around in their urban areas. Wait until they start to exploit the human and natural resources in the African nations. Completely unregulated industrialization with the use of fossil fuels, and we are worried about our carbon foot print. Regulate them and they stay in poverty, don't they have the human right to bettery themselves? I agree with having reasonable regulation, but all you hear from the Senate and House of Rep. is how we need to change. Al Gore and the group should change the phrase to “US warming” even though global temperatures have been dropping for the last decade.) ha. No effort into getting renewable energy resources
I. No Child Left Behind
J. Raised the tax credit for vehicles 6000 or larger for small business from 25k to 100k. Hence all the Hummers and Excursions on the road
k. Foreign Relations
l. I could go on for 100 more but I my fingers are getting tired

3. You already are saying that Obama would make poor Supreme Court choices. Don't make me bring up Harriet Myers who her own party did not even support. We have lawyers on this forum that were more qualified.

4. Obama Achievements:
A. Hope Act
b. The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
c. The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
d. The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
e. The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy

I realize not all of these passed but I agree with all of them in principal and no I have not read them cover to cover to give you full disclosure.

Bush is the worst president in my lifetime nobody is a close second. Hopefully in November we do elect change as the motto says. I don't want this country in 100 years of war in the Middle East.

Besides Obama is going to destroy McCain in the debates and like I said before the gap will start to widen.

Sorry, that was all that I had time to comment about. Thanks for your opinions, Diamonds.
 
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1. In this new world with our technology and world economy the US can not be a lone wolf. We need other countries to succeed. We also need other countries to buy American goods which they don't, we need other countries to sell us oil which to keep prices low to stop hurting the working poor.

1a. We need to start to make relations with countries such as Iran to keep the world peaceful through talking and not through made up wars filled of lies a deceit of the American public.

2. If you look at history the senate's approval rating democrat or republican lingers well below 50%. The reason for this is because of its bipartisan politics.
The democrats cannot get anything through the senate because King Bush will veto it. Any news organization will tell you that the republicans are set to loose about 20 more seats in the house and 5 to 7 seats in the senate and those are conservative numbers. I do not think the Americans are placing blame on the newly elected democrats.

2a. Bush has the lowest approval rating of any president including Jimmy Carter in more than 65 years. He was put there by the people to uphold our ideals and make this country better. He has simply not done that and is the worst president in my lifetime (Yes Jimmy Carter was also terrible). Bush's big screw ups:
a. Iraq War
1. Took focus of Afghanistan
2. Did not find Bin Laden
b. Economy
1. A whole lot more poor people today
c. Katrina
d. Budget Deficit
e. Huge tax breaks to the richest 1%
f. Movement towards more censorship
g. Increase in poverty in the US.
1. Took school lunch programs away from poor kids
h. Environment policies or lack there of
ha. No effort into getting renewable energy resources
I. No Child Left Behind
J. Raised the tax credit for vehicles 6000 or larger for small business from 25k to 100k. Hence all the Hummers and Excursions on the road
k. Foreign Relations
l. I could go on for 100 more but I my fingers are getting tired

3. You already are saying that Obama would make poor Supreme Court choices. Don't make me bring up Harriet Myers who her own party did not even support. We have lawyers on this forum that were more qualified.

4. Obama Achievements:
A. Hope Act
b. The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
c. The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
d. The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
e. The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy

I realize not all of these passed but I agree with all of them in principal and no I have not read them cover to cover to give you full disclosure.

Bush is the worst president in my lifetime nobody is a close second. Hopefully in November we do elect change as the motto says. I don't want this country in 100 years of war in the Middle East.

Besides Obama is going to destroy McCain in the debates and like I said before the gap will start to widen.

1. The main reason people in other countries don't buy our goods is that they are too expensive...due to a strong dollar (as well as more expensive inputs like labor vs places like china). The dollar weakening has led to huge growth in our export market.

2. But have we ever had a 9% approval rating for congress. Even if congressional approval ratings are traditionally lower than presidential ones...that's still pretty abyssmal. Getting 91% of the country to agree on anything is pretty amazing.

2a. History judges presidents differently than when they are in office. Personally, I think his inability to string together an intelligent sounding sentence is probably bush's greatest weakness. Many people disagree, but I personally believe that the Iraq War has the potential to cause massive ripples of change throughout the middle east...and do a great deal of good securing our future. People can argue against this...but it's all speculative either way... the only compelling evidence I see is the massive reduction in attacks against american interests outside the middle east. It's pretty compelling. It is often unpopular to make difficult decisions in the short term, but history remembers you better for it. The Marshall plan had many similar detractors...and it's remembered as an amazing success.

Didn't find bin Laden? Well, maybe not...but has rendered him completely ineffective, because he's hiding in a cave, afraid for his life...instead of running recruiting camps. If someone wants to hide, it's going to be virtually impossible to find them. More importantly...his approval rating is virtually nil among the citizens who inhabit the countries we're fighting in. His ideas sound good (idealistic?) to people who never have to see them in action. Then they have the chance to see our approach vs theirs...and the brutality turns them against him. So...he's basically as good as dead...as long as we remain committed to fighting against him and what he stands for. Putting his head on a stick would be pretty much purely symbolic at this point.

A whole lot more poor people? Through higher birth rates, illegal immigration, etc...also, grouping "poor people" together doesn't get at any of the reasons people are poor. Sometimes people have misfortunes that overwhelm them...but often it's a result of repetitive poor life decisions. Poor people are held up as some sort of group that deserves sympathy. Democrats somehow think that poor people don't have to take any personal responsibility...and that they are like winged birds who should be taken in and cared for. THAT attitude is as much responsible for the increase in the poor as any tax policies.

You do realize that the top 1% of earners pay something like 40% of ALL income taxes, right (while making, I believe...22% of all income)? And the top 50% of earners pay 97.3% (or something very close to that). These are much higher than the % of income they make...showing that the system is already highly progressive...and that almost half the people in the country pay zero tax. So tax cuts on the poor makes no sense..........cause they pay no tax. I think from many standpoints, it's unfair that 1% of the country has to support 40% of the country.

Another similar point is that lowering the taxes on the rich...and also on investments...often returns a net positive gain in income taxes, because those people have proven they know how to create a return on their money (and this spending/investing is much of what finances the growth in the economy). So, you end up helping the economy for everyone...while raising tax revenues...and the poor still aren't paying a dime. The crying about this topic just blows my mind.

Foreign Relations - We now have merkel and sarkozy...two very pro-american leaders in two countries that have been considered most "european" in their approach to us. It seems like the europeans are coming around to us. I find it laughable that the UN even exists anymore because of how corrupt and ineffectual it is. I think it's harshest action is "pat on the wrist." If there are hard decisions to be made for the good of the world...europeans have shown they don't have the stomach to make them. WWII sound familiar? Placation of Hitler led him to become emboldened. Diplomacy only works when each side has something the other side wants. If talking solved all issues, why would we need police officers in our cities? Shouldn't everyone just be able to talk everything out...then get together for a group hug? That's head-in-the-sand idealistic.

It'll be interesting to see the debates. Obama certainly is more polished...but seems to get flustered when he gets off message...and I've yet to see any substance from him that does anything but scare the crap out of me. (his ideas on taxes, healthcare, energy all scare the bejesus out of me) McCain's ideas on all three of these important issues are 100x better in my opinion that Obama's approach.
 
Well said Erik !!

Diamonds, I'm some what suprised that a self-employed person like yourself would cry...."pay more taxes". One of the more ludicrous statements that I've seen lately. This country has more hand-outs and free lunches than one can imagine, our welfare system is a joke, so raising taxes IS NOT THE ANSWER, rather as Erik stated, MORE RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE MANAGMENT by our Gov't IS the answer !!

Remember this , yes President Bush has been a poor leader and while it's easy to direct and channel the blame towards one man the root problem in this country of ours is our Senate and Hse of Rep. For it is our legeslative body of gov't that is a bonifide disgrace.

So lets not "hang out" far left or right but rather meet in the middle and get something accomplished !

This is the first time in American history we have not raised taxes during war time. How do you plan on paying for the war without raising taxes?

This small business owner I can afford the 600 bucks a month as long as it goes to things other than King Bush's revenge/oil war.
 
Am I really the only liberal except for Tom on this entire forum? Rich boys and there toys I suppose.
 
Foreign Relations - We now have merkel and sarkozy...two very pro-american leaders in two countries that have been considered most "european" in their approach to us. It seems like the europeans are coming around to us. I find it laughable that the UN even exists anymore because of how corrupt and ineffectual it is. I think it's harshest action is "pat on the wrist." If there are hard decisions to be made for the good of the world...europeans have shown they don't have the stomach to make them. WWII sound familiar? Placation of Hitler led him to become emboldened. Diplomacy only works when each side has something the other side wants. If talking solved all issues, why would we need police officers in our cities? Shouldn't everyone just be able to talk everything out...then get together for a group hug? That's head-in-the-sand idealistic.

The Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor and we declare war on Japan. Using Iraq/Afghanistan logic we should have not joined the European front to confront Germany and Italy?
 
This is the first time in American history we have not raised taxes during war time. How do you plan on paying for the war without raising taxes?

This small business owner I can afford the 600 bucks a month as long as it goes to things other than King Bush's revenge/oil war.

Want to know where the money is going?

Take a look at the amount spent on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

Hell - you could fight 3 wars at the same time using all of that money. You could EASILY pay for the war in no time flat if they actually dialed down the amount spent on the socalist entitlement programs.
 
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Diamonds,

You are not the only liberal on this site by a long shot. But I've been a bit burned-out with this topic due to the similar workplace discussions. I'm just tired of trying to reason with conservatives who go out to their car at lunch to catch their latest talking points from clowns like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

I'm tired of debunking the myths, assuring people that not all Dems want to take their guns, God, or money away from them. I find it odd that I actually have to justify sweeping changes to our medical system -- after all, is it reasonable in this age that 46 million Americans can't get or afford treatment for even the most common ailments ?? I grow weary of verbally illustrating the cronyism, idiocracy, high crimes and misdemeanors of this current administration and McCain's unwillingness to reject it -- talk about guilt by association !! Jeremiah Wright was a hair on a gnats arse compared to this wookie's worth of injustice inflicted upon the American citizenry.

But now you got me rambling... So I'll stop before I start to really stir up the s**t on this forum.

~VDR
 
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