What should I do first?

I have a really nice pair of Quests that I got from a friend that took better care of them than himself! They are 1993 and ALL original. At this present time I am using a Cambridge Audio 840A v2 to power them. I know this is not what most of you use but do not under estimate this little amp as it has no problem sending 200 watts in 4 ohms and less for 1800$ Most people I know that have much bigger systems than mine have been quite impressed.

However, as I said, the Quests are 1993 and original but look like they were never used. Should I change the panels first or buy seperates first? I cannot afford to do both at the same time. I am going to go with Bryston as I had a chance to listen with my speakers and was very impressed to say the least! Wonderful amps!

The sound was definately better but would it make sense to first change the panels? I can say that they do seem to sound fine and are equal in terms of balance and tone but I get nervous hearing about all the people always changing panels after a certain amount of years. Is this a necessity or should it be determined on an individual basis?

I could change the panels but would have to wait a year to save enough to buy a good power amp. Advice from all you pros would be appreciated.

For me, this is a tough one. A 1993 vintage ML, if used regularly, definitely will benefit from new panels. On the other hand, if like you say, they seem to be in tip top shape in both appearance and sound -- well, why bother ?

But this is what I would do: If you are happy with your current amp setup, then get the new panels. After all, what darn good are those new amps if the speakers being driven are only performing at 90%, or (heaven forbid) decide to go south two weeks after you bring home the new amps... And saving for a year for a product as refined as a Bryston is a small price to pay.

My 2 cents only.

~VDR

I must admit that I do not feel qualified to advice you on technical terms about replacing panels; but why all the fuss? Does ML recommend panel replacement at a certain age, like changing the timing belt in a car?

If no problems are detected, why spend unnecessarily and deprive yourself of some outstanding equipment? It could be that the speakers were not played often enough to make a difference since their induction. If they sound good, keep them.

(please ignore this opinion if a more knowledgeable person provides a solid technical reason to make the replacement )

Hi Dan,

If the speakers sound fine to you, I would go for the amp. I would suggest running the 3bst in balanced mode if your pre can accept the xlr connection. Getting off topic, I found the the sound quality of the 4bst amp I had took a giant leap with black diamond racing cones , number 4's under it.

Cheers, Greg

I have no idea what they would of originally sounded like when new so I am only basing the sound from what I am hearing now. As far as I am concerned, the panels seem evenly distributed with no problems playing highs and mids and also letting me know which CD's are better recorded than others.

All I know is that they are very nice and they were used quite frequently before but never in a harsh environment at all. He took very good care of them.

I just got the impression that because of their date, most people here seem to think that it is automatic to have them changed. I know of very few 15 year old speakers of other makes that need all new woofers but I am new to Martin Logan and really do believe they are superior to anything I have heard before...............maybe this is part of their maintenance or could be individual. I am still a little cofused as to what to do.

The only thing you have to please is your ears. Unfortunately part of pleasing your ears is pleasing the gray bit that keeps your head from collapsing. IMO, you probably have enough amp and you probably have perfectly functioning panels, but as long as there is doubt the gray bit's not going to be as happy as maybe it could be. If you have 200 solid watts and the amp isn't collapsing on itself or overloading your air conditioner (do you guys use those in Canada? ) I'd say go with the panels. If nothing else the new ones will look better.

Alternatively, you could get more music, a better chair, and more beer to drink while you listen.

Ok..........I am going to try and redirect my question a little.

Most of you on this site are very knowledgable with ML speakers and I really respect your opinions. As I said, the panels seem to be working fine but how would I really know?

If I were to change the panels first considering todays technology, what benefits should I notice? If I keep existing panels (that seem to be working fine) and go for the Brystons first, what should I notice? I guess the question is quite weird considering I did have a chance 2 days ago to listen to a bryston on ML's and was very impressed but it was not in my home and room.

I know the Cambridge 840A v2 is not what most of you recommend but it is quite a piece of gear for about 2000$ and comes highly regarded. I can play it loud and it does not turn off and has 200watts at 4 ohms.

Maybe the panel change would have the most initial impact but what do I know?

danman said:

If I were to change the panels first considering todays technology, what benefits should I notice? If I keep existing panels (that seem to be working fine) and go for the Brystons first, what should I notice? I guess the question is quite weird considering I did have a chance 2 days ago to listen to a bryston on ML's and was very impressed but it was not in my home and room.

Click to expand...

As someone who has recently changed panels from 18+ year old panels I will give you my take. There are others here who have changed old panels too.

Without hearing the current panels, it is hard to say how much of a change there will be. If the panels are original 1993, then new ones will be a revelation. What I heard with new panels is they will initially sound brighter and will play much louder at lower volume settings. Over some time the panels will smooth out.

In regards to Bryston, I am not a Bryston fan personally - so I will not go there. But if YOU liked the Bryston, then that is what really matters. But if the panels are old and getting weaker, then a new amp will be able to show its full potential.

If you have tried to vacuum your panels and saw no improvement and you are strongly considering new panels, then the shower method is next to see the change on them. The shower can really help out older panels, but there is always the chance of having adverse affects - yet many here have done it with no issues. The shower should be done as a last ditch effort to revive the panels. I did it on my Sequel II's and it helped, but nothing near the change of new panels.

Why not call `Logan and ask what they would recommend? or ask if there is a way for you to tell if the panel needs replacing, I am of the mind though that if "it aint broke dont fix it"

Arrange for an in home amp audition. That should tell you what you need to know if you are going to pursue that option.

GG

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6893&page=4

Am I right or what?

refer to User211 link on how to check them out. Then if you really want to go crazy with the Quest look at my re build of them. !

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5697&highlight=quest+to+be+different

Well, after careful consideration, I have decided to go with new panels first than try out amps second when they are installed. I figure that after 15 years I would probably not get full advantage of a new amp and would have to eventually change them anyways!

Is there any instructions or illistrations on this site showing how to replace them? I am very handy and have no problem doing any type of wood work or construction so this would not be an issue.

Thank you everyone for all the advice..........I appreciate it!

Instructions come with it but they are not the best. I have done several pairs and its a 1/2 hr job. First timers it may take 1 hr.


MAKE SURE THEY HAVE BEEN UNPLUGGED AND ARE COLD FOR 24 HRS AS THEY HOLD CHARGE FOR SEVERAL HRS. YOU DON'T WANT A SHOCK ! ( NOT THAT I WOULD KNOW)

Remove the new panels and inspect for any wrinkling at the spars or damage from shipping.

You will need a good flat head hammer and a small philips screwdriver.

1. Lay speaker on its back with a foot stool supporting the top section. Give the bottom of the wood rails a good rap with the hammer. The rails are on a pin and tapered metal clip holder. Its self explanatory once you see it. They will slide up towards the top. You may have to hit them hard. Don't worry they will come loose. Do this for each side.


2. Take the woofer grill and pull upwards on it away from the cabinet. There are 4 little Velcro holders at each corner. You know should see the 3 wire block. Red, Blue and black.


3 Remove them noting the order and the placement of each color. The panel has 4 Velcro strips at each corner . Gently Pull up on the panel and it will come right off.

4. Take the new panels and temporarily set them so you are close and the wires can be reached for connections at their proper colors. You may have to re tuck the wire out of the way. NOTE: THE WIRE SITS UNDER THE PANEL, THERE IS NOT A CUT OUT OR RECESS. I DID MINE WHEN I REBUILT THEM. THIS CAN BE DONE IN 5 MIN WITH A SMALL CHISEL.

5. Adjust the panel so its equal on the wood frame, so you can see the metal tapered slide ins. Make sure its flush with the top of the cabinet and set it down so the Velcro can grab.

6. Set the woofer grill back in place so the Velcro GRABS.

7. Slide the rails back into the tapered slots and lightly tap with the hammer on top of them until you feel them all grab. Then hit them until they are flush with the top of the wood frame. Repeat for the other side. You may have to hold the middle of the rail or have a helper at each end.

Its easy really. They need about a good month of solid playing to sound their best. They may sound a bit bright at first give them time !

Thanks a million CAP. You guys are great!

Dan--

Panel replacement really is a cinch and worth it in every way. I'm glad you went this route.

Once you get those suckers installed, do some critical listening and let this community know what you hear. In my experience, they will sound a bit energetic -- even "hot" to some -- but will calm down very quickly (4-8 hours at ~90 dB levels) and establish their absolute superiority over the old panels.

Good luck !! And if the instructions or install procedure confuses you, refer to the experts here like CAP and others for further explanation.

~VDR

I also think you are correct in changing the panels first. I had Quests for many years and changed the panels after about 8 years because of a drop off in volume from the panels. In my experience once the volume starts to drop off the change then happens quickly.

I feel good about my decision. I am waiting new for a price quote as I have to go through the Canadian dealer and the mark up may be about 200$ more than you guys pay! Should have them delivered for about 950$ However, the only downfall is it may take up to 6 weeks for some reason but I figure it is because they do not have them in stock and have to go through ML headquarters.

Thank you all for the advice..............this is such a great site!:bowdown:

I wonder what type of panels are shipping. Clearspar would be nice. My bass is beginning to overwhelm the panels. Boosted the panels 2 db, but I know that this is only a temporary fix.

Deciding whether to spend big bucks and go for a Summit or Spire. If I do, I will certainly miss the elegance of the Quests.

No clear spar for the Quest. Its a thickness issue with the spar material. (according to ML).