Acoustic Panels

Just wanted to share my limited experience with some acoustic panels. Not too long ago I moved my home theater into storage and brought down my two channel and placed it there. The room is approximately 13.5 feet by 23 feet. When I first turned on the stereo there seemed to be quite a bit of flutter echo. Some of this I knew of but it got worse as all of my hometheater epuipment was moved out and the room was alot emptier. So I began searching the web and this site for some solutions. I found several great sites that sold nice looking panels, but the price was alot more than I wanted to spend, especially with how many I wanted to buy. But then I found this company: atsacoustics.com and thought there product looked pretty good and then discovered the price was definitely right. A 4' x 2' and 2 inch thick panel was only $39.99 and a 4" thick version was just $10 more. So I purchased a few just to see what they looked like and if they would be nice enough for the wife. I am happy to say they were and so far I've purchased 12 in all. The cool part was that all of the hardware to install them onto the wall came with it for free along with instructions on how to hang them. So that meant I only needed my trusty drill, measuring tape, and a hammer to complete the job. No trips to the hardware store!!!! Of course they do not sell the bass traps that some companies sell but if you are looking for panels to help with first and second reflections as well as flutter echo and you don't have a fortune to put into it then I highly reccommend these. Maybe someone else here has already found these guys and mentioned them, but I did not see it off hand.

Oh yea, there customer service was excellent as I talked with them over the phone and asked to get them as soon as possible. They were pretty busy and hand several orders ahead of me, but she said she would see what they could do. 4 days later the Fedex man delivered the boxes to my door! Now that's more like it. As far as the sound since they have been installed, I would have to say it is a whole lot better. I'm sure there are some tweaks that could be done such as bass traps, but for now they have really cleared up the echo and helped with the soundstage. I wanted to share this just in case someone else out there are looking for less expensive alternatives. Hope this helps.

Glen

Thanks Glen. This is a very timely post for me.

Second the recommendation on ATS Acoustics.
Panels are good quality, the cheapest I could find.
As Glen says they come with plenty of hanging, hardware, service is great, and delivery is quick.

They have great prices, and a nice selection of fabric options, but their panels use wood backing, so probably don't work as well as others for bass trapping. I'm sure they're great for pure absorption.

You can specify no wood backing in the ATS panels (I believe it is a $5 option). I did for mine and they work fine for bass trapping. I stacked them in the front corners.

--burke

Burke said:

You can specify no wood backing in the ATS panels (I believe it is a $5 option). I did for mine and they work fine for bass trapping. I stacked them in the front corners.

--burke

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Ahhh, that's good to know!

way cool - thanks for the post...

let me ask a couple of questions for the experts... I'm an acoustic treatment idiot.... What is the advantage of the 4" vs 2" panel... My current setup sounds pretty good - my room is not that live. One of those rooms where you clap - and you get no echo. However, I am always looking for improvements and am stuck with a 60" LCD in the middle of my Odysseys. Given that - where would I put these buggers - and what is the advantage of the 4" over the 2".... I really only have a right wall (about 4' away from the right speaker) - and a front wall to deal with (with the tv in the middle). The left wall is about 15' from the left speaker. Each speaker is about 6' from the front wall....and I have about 15' to the back wall....any and all comments are welcome... I just get hesitant when buying these things - but the price for these seems like something that is well worth the risk.

timm said:

let me ask a couple of questions for the experts... I'm an acoustic treatment idiot.... What is the advantage of the 4" vs 2" panel... My current setup sounds pretty good - my room is not that live. One of those rooms where you clap - and you get no echo. However, I am always looking for improvements and am stuck with a 60" LCD in the middle of my Odysseys. Given that - where would I put these buggers - and what is the advantage of the 4" over the 2".... I really only have a right wall (about 4' away from the right speaker) - and a front wall to deal with (with the tv in the middle). The left wall is about 15' from the left speaker. Each speaker is about 6' from the front wall....and I have about 15' to the back wall....any and all comments are welcome... I just get hesitant when buying these things - but the price for these seems like something that is well worth the risk.

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In general the thicker the material the more absorbtion at the lower frequencies. The 4" material if spaced out from the wall will absorb the lower frequencies much more effectively.

I started with a couple of 2" traps a couple of corner traps and a couple of 4" traps and noticed a pretty big difference. I'm done with traps and will continue with other treatments for the rest of the room.

timm said:

let me ask a couple of questions for the experts... I'm an acoustic treatment idiot....

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Spend some time and read this from Ethan Winer...It answers and addresses a ton of questions regarding room treatments...

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

thanks guys .. I'll take a look at the article....

timm said:

let me ask a couple of questions for the experts... I'm an acoustic treatment idiot.... What is the advantage of the 4" vs 2" panel... My current setup sounds pretty good - my room is not that live. One of those rooms where you clap - and you get no echo. However, I am always looking for improvements and am stuck with a 60" LCD in the middle of my Odysseys. Given that - where would I put these buggers - and what is the advantage of the 4" over the 2".... I really only have a right wall (about 4' away from the right speaker) - and a front wall to deal with (with the tv in the middle). The left wall is about 15' from the left speaker. Each speaker is about 6' from the front wall....and I have about 15' to the back wall....any and all comments are welcome... I just get hesitant when buying these things - but the price for these seems like something that is well worth the risk.

Click to expand...

Hi Timm, the 2” vs 4” has been answered, but the other advice I could offer is as follows:

With an asymmetrical room, one of the applications of treatments is to restore some acoustical balance to the soundstage by attempting to absorb reflected energy for walls that are closer to the speaker set.

In your case, it looks like the right wall is one you’d want to ensure you have good HighFrequency absorption on from 2’ to 3’ behind the speaker to at least 3’ in front of it. Depending on your toe-in, ensure your first-reflection zone from the front of the panel is covered. (most people toe-in enough this is rarely a concern).

At 6’ from the front wall, you should be doing well there, but I’d still recommend a good broad-band absorber on the wall at the focus point of the panels. This should be something like a 4” thick, HighFrequency absorbing trap mounted 3” off the wall on spacers. The trap should be rated for good absoption down to 300Hz or so in this mounting configuration. The lower the better.

The rear wall should also be treated, but here you want to manage the high-frequencies more than anything else (although some bass absoption is plus). So anything from a thick hanging to a apir of commercial 2” traps spaced 2” off the wall will do the job.

Place the treatments at the focal point of the speakers beaming against that wall.

If you sit >6’ away from the rear wall, you actually might want to experiment with some diffusion on the rear wall. But no listener should ever be closer than 5’ from a diffuser.

Bass trapping should be done in corners, and in your case, I’d recommend a pair of 2x4’x4” stacked in the right front and right rear corners.

Also, bass trapping can be done along floor/wall or ceiling/wall boundaries. Therefore, it’s likely your room could see a benefit from another angled mounting of a 4x2’x4” panel long that right wall.

I’d have to bring up a room calculator using your exact room dimensions to see where might be ideal for those if you are willing to go there.

Remember, it often seems like one is putting in a ridiculous amount of room treatments, but it’s rare to over do it.

Tube traps?

Slightly OT... Does anyone have experience with Acoustic Sciences Tube Traps for bass absorbtion? I'm using Ethan's corner mondos in the front two corners, but, due to room configuration, I'm unable to do the same in the rear corners. AS tubes would be ideal, assuming they're effective.

Thanks!

Ken

RUR said:

Slightly OT... Does anyone have experience with Acoustic Sciences Tube Traps for bass absorbtion? I'm using Ethan's corner mondos in the front two corners, but, due to room configuration, I'm unable to do the same in the rear corners. AS tubes would be ideal, assuming they're effective...

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I'm sure ASC Tube Traps are effective, but pretty expensive new. They occasionally show up on A'gon, but usually for local sale. Another option is to build DIY traps (lots of tutorials on the net), or alternatively, buy a GIK Pillar Trap...
http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_elite_pillar.html

I had a similar corner issue where I couldn't use a wide or triangular panel, so went with a custom 3' tall GIK trap, which I can also use it as a pedestal. That, along with my other recent treatments, significantly tamed my bass nodes.

JonFo said:

Hi Timm, the 2” vs 4” has been answered, but the other advice I could offer is as follows:

With an asymmetrical room, one of the applications of treatments is to restore some acoustical balance to the soundstage by attempting to absorb reflected energy for walls that are closer to the speaker set.

In your case, it looks like the right wall is one you’d want to ensure you have good HighFrequency absorption on from 2’ to 3’ behind the speaker to at least 3’ in front of it. Depending on your toe-in, ensure your first-reflection zone from the front of the panel is covered. (most people toe-in enough this is rarely a concern).

At 6’ from the front wall, you should be doing well there, but I’d still recommend a good broad-band absorber on the wall at the focus point of the panels. This should be something like a 4” thick, HighFrequency absorbing trap mounted 3” off the wall on spacers. The trap should be rated for good absoption down to 300Hz or so in this mounting configuration. The lower the better.

The rear wall should also be treated, but here you want to manage the high-frequencies more than anything else (although some bass absoption is plus). So anything from a thick hanging to a apir of commercial 2” traps spaced 2” off the wall will do the job.

Place the treatments at the focal point of the speakers beaming against that wall.

If you sit >6’ away from the rear wall, you actually might want to experiment with some diffusion on the rear wall. But no listener should ever be closer than 5’ from a diffuser.

Bass trapping should be done in corners, and in your case, I’d recommend a pair of 2x4’x4” stacked in the right front and right rear corners.

Also, bass trapping can be done along floor/wall or ceiling/wall boundaries. Therefore, it’s likely your room could see a benefit from another angled mounting of a 4x2’x4” panel long that right wall.

I’d have to bring up a room calculator using your exact room dimensions to see where might be ideal for those if you are willing to go there.

Remember, it often seems like one is putting in a ridiculous amount of room treatments, but it’s rare to over do it.

Click to expand...

Jonfo - thanks for the advice... Yes - my room is about 24 feet wide - but I can only use 1/2 of that because right down the center of it - are your typical basement supports for the I-beam...So, that left speaker is just to the right of the I-Beam..and is about 12 feet from the left wall - while the right speaker is about 3 feet away. This unfortunately limits what I can do with the distance I have the speakers apart (currently about 6' from the inside of each cabinet). In any case - I will use your advice when I purchase some of these ...

I read the article that was suggested above - and the guy recommends putting insulation above the hanging ceiling.. My current ceiling tile is 'ok' - but it is not that thick roughed up stuff you see at home depot or lowes (you know - the 2X2 tiles that look extremely rough and are more expensive)... Do you think any benefit would be had by changing out ceiling tiles? The ceiling has some places where it is about 6.5 feet and others where it is 7 feet. In general - most of the area in the listening area is 7 feet high.

Again though - not even sure I have an 'issue' per se - but always trying to optimize!!

I found the below link a very good and full of information regarding acoustic treatment.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html