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Thread: Room treatments – part 2

  1. #31
    Senior Member FOUNTAIN's Avatar
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    Wow!! Excellent job Jonathan. When is the open house going to be?

    Glen
     
    Move that audio rack out from between those speakers and hear what you may be missing!!!!
    http://www.martinloganowners.com/~td...ight=signature

  2. #32
    Super User User211's Avatar
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    From ML website:

    "True dipole speakers, such as electrostatic panels, have long been noted for their near-ideal radiation patterns. They send very little sound to the sides, thereby minimizing side-wall reflections with short arrival times that tend to interfere with perception of the direct sound. Their strong rear radiation, however, produces a generous amount of ambience-enriching later-arriving reflections off the wall behind them."

    Care to comment?

  3. #33
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    really cool!

    Jon, please experiment next with a 2.40 constant image height screen with anamorphic lens. There's a lot about that, but precious few that use MLs, so we need great resources to learn from.

  4. #34
    Super User slowGEEZR's Avatar
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    Simply incredible! Well done Jonathan (and wife)!
    - Steve You got fins to the left, fins to the right...Wilson WP8, Pass Labs XA-100.5, Pass Labs XP-20, BAT PK-V5, Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, TTW GEM V2, K&K Audio Premium SUT, VPI 16.5 & Keith Monks Discovery One record cleaners, MacMini (on Spatial Isoplane), JRiver, Ayre QB-9 DSD, X-CAN V-3, Sennheiser HD-535 (on Woo Audio stand), Adona Racks, SRA amp bases, PS Audio PPP, Mogami w/ Neutrik XLRs, Douglas speaker cable, GIK treatments, Shunyata Venom Defenders.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    ...
    very little sound to the sides...
    Care to comment?
    JonFo, my guess is that most of the acoustic energy these traps absorb is below 100Hz, where the panel dispersion pattern is irrelevant.
    Don't your measurements support this guess?
    max-boost
    Rega Planet > Musical Fidelity A324 DAC > MF A3CR pre > 4 x XA200 > SL3

    Subs: 500w 2x12" and 1300w 18" via two Behringer FBQ2496s (one deals with the ML bass units)

  6. #36
    Super User JonFo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benleeys View Post
    Jon,

    Congratulations on a real pro-job. Awesome.

    But how does one go about looking for a partner like yours? I consider that as the first step when embarking on such a project. Maybe you should open another thread on this - a prequel.
    Thanks Ben, Well I did my shopping 31 years ago and she was just 17 when we met, so it takes advance planning.

    Actually I’m very lucky to have a talented and supportive spouse.
    But yes, a prequel might be in order, I’ll add that to my personal site: how I got into this mess

    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    Actually, she is always supportive, and if I listened to her, I would have spent far more on hi-fi than I already have done.

    BTW: she's into fashion and works for http://www.mulberry.com/

    amey01 - after further thought, I wouldn't copy Jon's work - it wouldn't be cool! My scheme would have some cunning variations....
    User211 that’s cool. It’s funny when the spouses are the ones going “yeah, go get that”

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepysurf View Post
    Very slick Jonathon! Kudos to you and your wife!
    FYI, check out this "Official High WAF Acoustical Treatment" thread...
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1047573

    You two should be cross-posting to one another!
    Alan, thanks. I checked out that thread, and yes, I’ll be posting a link to this thread over there, as I think he did an awesome job as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
    Now I am MORE bummed than ever I couldn't find the time to come see this last week. The room looks awesome, and I already know it sounds mind blowing

    GREAT GREAT job
    Scott, thanks and we missed you my friend. You could have seen it in all its glory.

    Next time you’re in town, let’s plan some time to hook up.
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

  7. #37
    Super User JonFo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnA View Post
    An inspiration to us all

    25 traps eh
    Well, there's 25 traps from RealTraps + 2 RPG bass traps + 4 RPG skyline Diffusors plus 2 4" DIY traps plus 6 2" DIY traps.

    Oh, and 14' x 2 of lateral custom treatments.

    Maybe the room has about enough treatments now

    Still need to hang some stuff from the ceiling that's included in the counts above. It's never over it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowGEEZR View Post
    Simply incredible! Well done Jonathan (and wife)!
    Thanks, it was fun to do. Glad eveyone like the results, we sure do.
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

  8. #38
    Super User JonFo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOUNTAIN View Post
    Wow!! Excellent job Jonathan. When is the open house going to be?

    Glen
    Glen, I'm thinking of planning a Southeast get together for September.
    But if you'd like to drop by some weekend, just PM me and we can see if there is time that works for both of us.
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

  9. #39
    Super User JonFo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    From ML website:

    "True dipole speakers, such as electrostatic panels, have long been noted for their near-ideal radiation patterns. They send very little sound to the sides, thereby minimizing side-wall reflections with short arrival times that tend to interfere with perception of the direct sound. Their strong rear radiation, however, produces a generous amount of ambience-enriching later-arriving reflections off the wall behind them."

    Care to comment?
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnA View Post
    JonFo, my guess is that most of the acoustic energy these traps absorb is below 100Hz, where the panel dispersion pattern is irrelevant.
    Don't your measurements support this guess?
    While it is true that dipoles radiate very little mid and high-frequency laterally, due to their equal volume rear radiation pattern, that rear wave will travel, hit the wall, ricochet at an angle (assuming you have them toed in a bit), bounce off the side wall, then mix it up in the room.

    It’s the control of the rear wave that is the primary reason why I covered the forward 2/3 rds of the room length along the side wall to the front wall. Those reflections are pretty well damped now

    So while many people want the added ‘ambiance’ the rear wave reflections can provide, they are slightly less accurate (comb filtering is obvious) and they do not image as well for multichannel.

    And since I do 98% of my listening in multichannel (thanks to a great center), I rather prefer the more focused results that dampening the rear wave and associated side wall reflections provide.

    As JohnA correctly notes, much of the reason for traps along side walls is not just first reflection or high-frequency management but generalized bass trapping. And since frequencies below 300Hz are increasingly omnidirectional, the traps need to go where the room modes are. And unfortunately, when it comes to low-frequencies, they appear all over the place.

    The system is still plenty bright, but it has an extra layer of articulation that was not there before. Some of that is the new preamp and Audyssey EQ, some of it is the new treatments.

    The room is not quite done acoustically, as I have yet to hang about 8 or so traps from the ceiling.

    That will further manage certain modes and get me as close as I think is realistic to making this room the best it can be.
    Last edited by JonFo; 07-23-2008 at 03:36 AM. Reason: spelling
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

  10. #40
    Super User User211's Avatar
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    Actually, Jonathan, I think that ML quote is a bit naughty in the sense that they can't have it both ways - no side wall reflections? I say that isn't true due to the curvelinear panels - they will literally fire directly into the side walls.

    So there's more than one reason why side wall damping is necessary.

  11. #41
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    Jonathan,

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
    The room is not quite done acoustically, as I have yet to hang about 8 or so traps from the ceiling.
    I'm in the process of treating my room very similarly to the way you are treating yours.

    I've got the jury out on whether or not I need ceiling traps. I would really love a before and after comparison on the ceiling treatments to determine the impact of the change.

    BTW, sweet setup

    jlo

  12. #42
    MLO owner/operator TomDac's Avatar
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    sweet man-cave!
    Tom D'Acquisto
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    ML Owner from 1988 to 2015 (Sequels, reQuests, Summits, Cinema)
    Currently MartinLoganless
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  13. #43
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    max-boost
    Rega Planet > Musical Fidelity A324 DAC > MF A3CR pre > 4 x XA200 > SL3

    Subs: 500w 2x12" and 1300w 18" via two Behringer FBQ2496s (one deals with the ML bass units)

  14. #44
    Super User JonFo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLomnicki View Post
    Jonathan,



    I'm in the process of treating my room very similarly to the way you are treating yours.

    I've got the jury out on whether or not I need ceiling traps. I would really love a before and after comparison on the ceiling treatments to determine the impact of the change.

    BTW, sweet setup

    jlo
    Hi John,

    That's cool, please tell us more about your plans and room layout.

    As for ceiling traps, I agree, I've left them for last as at least in the high-frequencies, I have no real problems there, since the ML's are directional line sources, not much makes it onto the ceiling (except indirectly via diffusion from objects in the room, so never underestimate what that coffee table in front of you is doing to the reflection of sound back into the room )

    But bass modes can be treated via ceiling mounted traps. Therfore careful calculations as well as measurements (to confirm high-pressure points) are required to correctly place.

    I’ll document all that in Part 3 of the grand acoustics saga
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

  15. #45
    Super User JonFo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomDac View Post
    sweet man-cave!

    Thanks Tom, you're welcome to visit it any time you are in the area.

    Somedays I think, man, I am a product of the 70's (when I was a teen), I just love them colored lights

    Just be glad a disco ball didn't make it into there

    BTW- For all you other 50-something boogie-boys , don't be tempted to put black-lights anywhere near a ML set. The Panels are UV sensitive (remember: keep away from sunlight)
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

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