Speaker positioning, observation

I have recently installed the Mapleshade Excalibur IC's between my components. Needless to say I was completely blown away by the difference these cables made in my system. The ability to distinguish nylon from steel guitar strings was stunning. The speed and clarity now evident gives me a new respect for the Vantage.

It was recommended to me to pull the speakers out to 5 feet, level and plumb the panels. I thought it was a little much but tried it anyway. My gosh, I've never heard anything like it!! It was the first time in my limited experience that the speakers actually disappeared from the room. I sat there for over 8 hours with my jaw on my chest. My wife warned me not to exert myself. While I'm learning to listen, the results were even obvious to me. The depth, width and instrument locations were spot on.

Grandchildren came for the past week so they had to get pushed back to avoid the little ones from hurting themselves. Well, they left this morning and the speaks are pulled back out again. I've got to check my sick day balance and see if I can get the cure on today!!

Gordon, thanks for the tips and those wonderful interconnects.

Gordon

Gordon,

You are very welcome. I'm glad you like the IC's and got the results that you have.

As far as the new placement goes, I've had good luck with the five (5) foot out from the back wall position / vertical azimuth close to perpendicular over the years and encourage all, who have the room, to give it a try.

By the by, I sent you a PM last night regarding the spike / floor interface isolators and spike options.

I'm confident that you will clearly hear the improvements once all the nasty, miniscule speaker / floor vibrations are attenuated.

Take care.

GG

vertical azimuth close to perpendicular

Can you describe this differently. Not sure I understand your description. Are you meaning the panels are straight and not slanted toward the rear wall?

Web,

Exactly. My panels are level and at a 90 degree angle to the floor. No back angle at all.

Gordon

Gordon,
How do you like the MapleShade speaker wires? I've read nothing but good things about them here. What are you considering for spikes? I have the OregonDV and have been pleased with them--they're very inexpensive as well.

Quote Gordan: "It was the first time in my limited experience that the speakers actually disappeared from the room. I sat there for over 8 hours with my jaw on my chest."

Yup, I definately want some of what you've been smokin'

If that was a sarcastic comment, it is, IMHO, totally condescending and totally inappropriate.

I remember the first time I had my "awakening" to a quality system.

Guess what? It was the first time I heard the original CLS some 25 years ago.

GG

Brian_74 said:

Gordon,
How do you like the MapleShade speaker wires? I've read nothing but good things about them here. What are you considering for spikes? I have the OregonDV and have been pleased with them--they're very inexpensive as well.

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Hi Brian,

Also have the MS speaker wire in my system. Silly / stupid performance at a reasonable cost. No desire to explore other options.

Mapleshade offers a 30 day money back on all their stock (non custom) items. If you are interested, I would highly encourage you to pursue an audition.

Perhaps, the other Gordon may chime in on his observations.

Best regards,

GG

Ah, several comments to make.

While a persons herb of choice may enhance the listening experience, I am subject to frequent and random drug screenings at work. I must refrain from partaking, otherwise the source of funds will "go up in smoke" and no further audio toys will be available to me. By the way, no offense taken!!


Brian, the MS speaker wires are the second set of wires I tried with my Vantage's. Initally I had a pair of Tributaries SP4BW. I was using them with my old speakers and they sounded fine. When hooked up to the ML, they sounded very dark to me. I installed the MS after about 3 days and never looked back. While the physical appearance took me by surprise, the sound was even more so. Very clear and fast. Attack and decay was more like I thought it should be. I really don't see me changing them out any time soon. I'm not certain which way I'm going to go yet on spikes.

Gordon

Gordon Gray said:

As far as the new placement goes, I've had good luck with the five (5) foot out from the back wall position / vertical azimuth close to perpendicular over the years and encourage all, who have the room, to give it a try.GG

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Hello Gordon,

I just happened to be browsing around the site and noticed this thread last night and decided to try out the vertical azimuth of my panels to the floor. Wow!! My speakers were already pulled out from the wall 5 ft. since I moved the two channel into a bigger room a couple of weeks ago. But when I tried the perpendiular to the floor method, it really did make the speakers more absent from the room. I must have listened for 3 or more hours last night trying all different kinds of music and just fell in love with this setup. They are not exactly perpendicular to the floor but the slant of the panel is now very slight compared to before. It's funny how you can own a speaker for so long (Vantages/Aeon i) and not have them dialed in. To both Gordon's thank you for bringing this up; I don't know how I missed it for so long.

Glen

Gordon Gray said:

If that was a sarcastic comment, it is, IMHO, totally condescending and totally inappropriate.

I remember the first time I had my "awakening" to a quality system.

Guess what? It was the first time I heard the original CLS some 25 years ago.

GG

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Gordon Gray, it was just a joke. Nothing more, nothing less. Gordan had obviously be enjoying his hi-fi with the kind of intensity that is usually associated with altered states. The fact that he had managed to achieve it without the associated consumption of a less than legal substance is only to his credit and enjoyment.

Gordan - thanks for seeing the comment in the manner it was intended.

Reminds me of a letter in Hi-Fi News many years ago where a man went to his local dealer and demanded a hi-fi that sounded as good as his midi system did when he was stoned! Not sure whether the dealer succeeded...

Its actually a bit strange that while other electrostatics, like Audiostatic are straight, in a 90 degree angle, then most Martin Logans are not.....

It is tough for me to achieve the "5 foot out" rule, but I do plan on trying to remove some of the slant from the panels.
Did you use longer aftermarket spikes? I am using the stock spikes that came with my Vantages. I will have to see how much thread is available to back out for the lift in the rear.

Lee

Nielsen said:

Its actually a bit strange that while other electrostatics, like Audiostatic are straight, in a 90 degree angle, then most Martin Logans are not.....

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During our visit to Lawrence, KS last year we asked about that. The reason for the slant with the newer ESL line (Summit, Vantage, Vista, and presumably the Spire) was because the new panels are shorter than previous designs, and the slant helps with vertical dispersion. Thus, if you're particularly tall, or standing FAR back from the speakers, you might lose some fidelity when they are 90 degrees upright. Of note (?? based on our feedback), the new Purity and Source have a reversible base to allow either full vertical or slanted placement. I'm really curious to see if I'll need to tweak the tilt and toe-in after I place my absorption panels (on order) behind my Summits.

Kaboomnash said:

It is tough for me to achieve the "5 foot out" rule, but I do plan on trying to remove some of the slant from the panels.
Did you use longer aftermarket spikes? I am using the stock spikes that came with my Vantages. I will have to see how much thread is available to back out for the lift in the rear.

Lee

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Hello Lee,

I am using the supplied spikes that came with the Vantages. I lowered the front spikes to as low as they would go and raised the back almost as far out as they would go. I am still playing with it, but I do prefer this setup compared to the way I had it. I wonder if the CLX has little to no tilt on them.:think: It does make since that the slant would allow for higher dispersion, especially when standing, but I always sit when listening. So far I have not noticed any adverse effects from tilting them forwards with regards to soundstage height. My height is 5' 11" and I sit in a home theater chair. However, if I were 6'4 or taller then I could see this being a possible problem. Just play around with it and see if it works for you. The best part in trying this is that it only takes a couple of minutes to adjust. And if it dosen't work then two more minutes you will be back to your previous starting point.

Glen

Hm... does that really add up? The reason I ask is that my Ascents, which are taller than a Summit, and not the latest model, slant back quite a way by default.

Interestingly, I have removed as much of this as possible via listening tests years ago, by raisng the rear and dropping the front using the supplied spikes as far as they will go.

I love this thread!!

So cool when you get your speakers to disappear for the first time.

I remember years ago when I had my Sequels in a small apartment and had them totally dialed in, I had a friend (Craig) over who had never heard my system. I blindfolded him before he came into the apartment, put him in the sweet spot and put a CD on. Then I asked him to tell me where the music was coming from and he was SO confused because he didn't hear it coming out of any speakers, but from the soundstage!!!

Several times after that, when I'd have people over, including Craig, he'd insist on blindfolding one of them and doing the same thing, while I watched or fixed dinner or whatever. It was classic.

To me, that is how you know when you got everything dialed in... You're sitting in the sweet spot, listening to music and while looking at the speakers, you cannot tell they're on...

Mine have been set much like User122 above for 8 years.

A note: I've had my speakers toed using the "listen to the inner third of the panel" via the flashlight technique etc.

I was looking at the CLX manual and they have included a flashlight diagram in the manual. However, the light looks wayyyy closer to the inside edge of the speaker than 1/3rd. Had to zoom in quite a bit on that document to see where they were aiming the light....

TomDac said:

Several times after that, when I'd have people over, including Craig, he'd insist on blindfolding one of them and doing the same thing, while I watched or fixed dinner or whatever. It was classic.

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yeah, i've heard about those kind of parties ....

back when i had just the CLS and the television between them a friend wandered into the room to watch a newscast. the CLS had disappeared so much that the mono broadcaster was coming straight from dead center and my friend could not believe that the sound was actually coming from "the big screens".

As we speak I have the Pixies Acoustic Live at Newport on pretty loud. I have put my Ascents well forward of the Descent for the first time ever, I guess - and hey it's good because it reflects the kind of arrangement you hear at a live gig - i.e. kickdrum coming from the back, with vocals/guitars at the front.

I am thinking why did this not occur to me before? All sub owners - give it a try immediately!

Beer number two on the way - with a little (legal!) alcohol, albeit with the drastic penalties one has to pay for it's consumption, always goes down well with a bit of great music!

Enjoy...