No Martin Logan at the RMAF?

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My dealer mentioned he could get me a pair if I were so inclinded. 25k and he could get them now. Is he a liar?
 
My dealer mentioned he could get me a pair if I were so inclinded. 25k and he could get them now. Is he a liar?

Probably.........but if you spend 25k for a standard pair of CLX's that sure make you a "fool"....LOL !!
 
Why did ML debut the CLX's in Munich? The answer is very simple. About 3 weeks ago, I had lunch with four industry people. One of which was a local guy and the other three were from out West. When I mentioned the RMAF, the three Western guys told me they did almost zero business from the fest and these people are all high end reps. If ML isn't exhibiting, it isn't hard to figure why.

I've held off commenting on this position for a while now, but a conversation I had with Dave (Twich54) over dinner last night convinced me to make one more attempt to explain what I believe the show is about to all those here who might be riding the fence because Martin Logan may not be there and may not be demonstrating the CLX. I say "might" because there are new exhibitors signing up for the show all the time. I don't have any insite on Martin Logans plans directly, but there are many months between now and October, so who knows.

What I do want to address is this notion that RMAF is not of value because of a percieved lack sales generated at the show. Beyond that, what is the overall intent of the show for both the exhibitor and the attendee.

I can't speculate on Martin Logan's (nor any other manufacturer for that matter) business plan because I don't work for them. I do work for a company though that generates nearly $2B (that's right - with a large B) in annual sales that I am directly involved with by insuring we develop the very best products we can and continue to contribute to brand vitality. We do our job pretty well. Vitality Contribution avarages 28% for the seven brands I have responsibility for and overall brand growth is a tick above 34% for the year - not bad for this economy!

Tonight I leave for our biggest tradeshow (LightFair) in Las Vegas. This show is our direct equivalent to CES or CEDIA, and the intention of the show is to launch our new products, speak to technological advances, wine and dine our Agents and Distributors, but mostly, to check where they are against their sales budgets, set stretch goals and generally grow the business. This show is closed to the general public and focuses very much on our industry and growing our market segment - just like CES and CEDIA. We do not sell any product directly at the show, and yet, most of our business goals are cemented in the business deals that take place in the booth and behind closed doors - just like CES and CEDIA.

We attend a number of smaller trade shows all over the world with out distributors and agents where the approach and intention is much more delibertatly targeted at our end users. Whether it's a "Lunch and Learn" session or specific product demonstrations or our "Winter Workshop" sessions where we bring lighting designers, architects, building engineers, interior designers etc. into our facility to provide product training, demonstrations etc. directly to our end users and then take them up to the ski slopes for a weekend of fun, all the while working them for information about their projects, identifying new product opportunities, pinpointing their needs. We call this gathering VOC (Voice of the Customer) and it is used to directly tailor the sales pitch on existing products and feed the pipeline on the development of new products. Becuase this type of activity is so closely tied to direct involvement with our customers we make a concious choice to conduct it away from the hustle and bustle of the big tradeshow that is LightFair.

One of the most difficult things any business has to contend with is understanding the correlation between sales and marketing effort and the translation to direct POS (Point of Sales) customers. We don't have a good metric for it, and I suspect that larger audio manufacturers like Martin Logan don't either. Distributor and Agent networks add a necssary, but none the less insulatory layer between us and our end users. Because I'm directly involved with gathering and interpreting that VOC data I at least have the opportunity to interface with my customer base, and the way we do it is at those smaller shows, at enthusiast gatherings (IES meetings in my case), and by spending time directly with our customers - very much like what happens at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest wherein Manufacturers, along with their sales agents, meet their direct POS customers to sell, educate and listen to their real customer base.

To say that someone does "almost zero" business at RMAF is stunningly short sighted to me, and begs the question since the comparison was drawn earlier as to ask "How much actual business (i.e. direct sales) were generated by these same industry insiders at either CEDIA or CES? I suspect zero in the terms insinuated in the argument above. The point is that both types of shows have their very specific agendas, needs and end results. The big industry shows like CEDIA and CES are all about the BIG business. The smaller, more intimate shows are where real product demonstrations occur and real end users are listening, making mental notes, enjoying the product, learning and ultimately deciding what they may or may not buy. Again, we may not have a metric for the direct correlation between the value to the business of these types of activities and the bottom line, none the less, it would be foolhearty to ignore the impact.

Ultimately, Martin Logan may or may not be at the show. They may or may not demonstrate the CLX (tell me where else you can hear it right now?). Either way, there will be several hundred other exhibitors entertaining 3000+ potential customers over the span of 3 days. What high end retailer in the country wouldn't want 3000 potential customers coming into his store on any given weekend? I think most of them would give their eye teeth for that kind of traffic if even <5% of that number ended up making a purchase somewhere downstream.
 
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My dealer mentioned he could get me a pair if I were so inclinded. 25k and he could get them now. Is he a liar?
They are just started production on them so he or she is FOS ! I was in Kansas last week and they said they have no CLX to show !
 
Two things...

1. Tim, I read your entire post and I have better insight of the industry now. Thanks!
2. D - I thought that LoganLove had preordered his set of CLXs? Are you saying that your dealer can get you on the preorder list?
 
It's not that I don't think the RMAF is worthwhile, I was just pointing out that there are only so many shows a big vendor can attend in a year.

Because RMAF cost me about 6000 bucks, you saw the dinky room I had and the location. The guys on the mezzanine probably spent five times that.

As far as my attendance numbers go, when I was leaving, I asked Al Steifel's wife how many people were there and she said "about 2200", so that's what I based my comment on.

Again, I love going to the show as a spectator and agree that PR is always good. It just gets very hard to justify. When ML comes out with a 20 thousand dollar speaker and everyone freaks out at the price, that's where some of the cost goes. It's always up to the individual mfr. what they want to spend where.

For us, we found that we were able to reach out and touch more people by just bringing a couple more people to the show and scattering among the rooms. A mfr can't do that.

Marketing is the hardest part of the audio industry, because you never know what will work and when.

The other part of the show that's tough, and this is what I've heard from a number of mfrs is the chances of things getting damaged along the way and how that can effect the outcome. In addition to the costs of just getting people there, you also have to deal with the leftover B-stock after the show. Sometimes it sells, sometimes it doesn't.

So again, for the record, I'm not against the RMAF, just pointing out what the financial involvement is for many companies and how this might affect their participation.
 
With all the buzz generated by the CLX at Munich, having it at the next RMAF could probably multiply their anticipated attendance; I wonder if anyone with RMAF has thought to ask ML what it would take to have them attend (like a very large discount ;) ?)
 
With all the buzz generated by the CLX at Munich, having it at the next RMAF could probably multiply their anticipated attendance; I wonder if anyone with RMAF has thought to ask ML what it would take to have them attend (like a very large discount ;) ?)

Agreed.

Also Tom, Dave, or Tim,
Has anyone let ML know this is the site of this years get together of the MLOC. They got some press out of our first gathering, not to say the CLX wouldn't garner it's fair share of publicity if at RMAF, but it would be a nice tie in.

Wife is due on October 20th and I'm still on the fence about attending, but if the CLX were there I would definatly be in and I'm sure others on this forum feel the same.

just my .02
 
I've held off commenting on this position for a while now, but a conversation I had with Dave (Twich54) over dinner last night convinced me to make one more attempt to explain what I believe the show is about to all those here who might be riding the fence because Martin Logan may not be there and may not be demonstrating the CLX. I say "might" because there are new exhibitors signing up for the show all the time. I don't have any insite on Martin Logans plans directly, but there are many months between now and October, so who knows.

What I do want to address is this notion that RMAF is not of value because of a percieved lack sales generated at the show. Beyond that, what is the overall intent of the show for both the exhibitor and the attendee.

I can't speculate on Martin Logan's (nor any other manufacturer for that matter) business plan because I don't work for them. I do work for a company though that generates nearly $2B (that's right - with a large B) in annual sales that I am directly involved with by insuring we develop the very best products we can and continue to contribute to brand vitality. We do our job pretty well. Vitality Contribution avarages 28% for the seven brands I have responsibility for and overall brand growth is a tick above 34% for the year - not bad for this economy!

Tonight I leave for our biggest tradeshow (LightFair) in Las Vegas. This show is our direct equivalent to CES or CEDIA, and the intention of the show is to launch our new products, speak to technological advances, wine and dine our Agents and Distributors, but mostly, to check where they are against their sales budgets, set stretch goals and generally grow the business. This show is closed to the general public and focuses very much on our industry and growing our market segment - just like CES and CEDIA. We do not sell any product directly at the show, and yet, most of our business goals are cemented in the business deals that take place in the booth and behind closed doors - just like CES and CEDIA.

We attend a number of smaller trade shows all over the world with out distributors and agents where the approach and intention is much more delibertatly targeted at our end users. Whether it's a "Lunch and Learn" session or specific product demonstrations or our "Winter Workshop" sessions where we bring lighting designers, architects, building engineers, interior designers etc. into our facility to provide product training, demonstrations etc. directly to our end users and then take them up to the ski slopes for a weekend of fun, all the while working them for information about their projects, identifying new product opportunities, pinpointing their needs. We call this gathering VOC (Voice of the Customer) and it is used to directly tailor the sales pitch on existing products and feed the pipeline on the development of new products. Becuase this type of activity is so closely tied to direct involvement with our customers we make a concious choice to conduct it away from the hustle and bustle of the big tradeshow that is LightFair.

One of the most difficult things any business has to contend with is understanding the correlation between sales and marketing effort and the translation to direct POS (Point of Sales) customers. We don't have a good metric for it, and I suspect that larger audio manufacturers like Martin Logan don't either. Distributor and Agent networks add a necssary, but none the less insulatory layer between us and our end users. Because I'm directly involved with gathering and interpreting that VOC data I at least have the opportunity to interface with my customer base, and the way we do it is at those smaller shows, at enthusiast gatherings (IES meetings in my case), and by spending time directly with our customers - very much like what happens at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest wherein Manufacturers, along with their sales agents, meet their direct POS customers to sell, educate and listen to their real customer base.

To say that someone does "almost zero" business at RMAF is stunningly short sighted to me, and begs the question since the comparison was drawn earlier as to ask "How much actual business (i.e. direct sales) were generated by these same industry insiders at either CEDIA or CES? I suspect zero in the terms insinuated in the argument above. The point is that both types of shows have their very specific agendas, needs and end results. The big industry shows like CEDIA and CES are all about the BIG business. The smaller, more intimate shows are where real product demonstrations occur and real end users are listening, making mental notes, enjoying the product, learning and ultimately deciding what they may or may not buy. Again, we may not have a metric for the direct correlation between the value to the business of these types of activities and the bottom line, none the less, it would be foolhearty to ignore the impact.

Ultimately, Martin Logan may or may not be at the show. They may or may not demonstrate the CLX (tell me where else you can hear it right now?). Either way, there will be several hundred other exhibitors entertaining 3000+ potential customers over the span of 3 days. What high end retailer in the country wouldn't want 3000 potential customers coming into his store on any given weekend? I think most of them would give their eye teeth for that kind of traffic if even <5% of that number ended up making a purchase somewhere downstream.

I'm only relaying what I was told by some high end reps. Basically, the fest is good for the 'philes and not good for business. Also, it is my understanding that ML won't be exhibiting this year.
 
It's not that I don't think the RMAF is worthwhile, I was just pointing out that there are only so many shows a big vendor can attend in a year.

Because RMAF cost me about 6000 bucks, you saw the dinky room I had and the location. The guys on the mezzanine probably spent five times that.

As far as my attendance numbers go, when I was leaving, I asked Al Steifel's wife how many people were there and she said "about 2200", so that's what I based my comment on.

Again, I love going to the show as a spectator and agree that PR is always good. It just gets very hard to justify. When ML comes out with a 20 thousand dollar speaker and everyone freaks out at the price, that's where some of the cost goes. It's always up to the individual mfr. what they want to spend where.

For us, we found that we were able to reach out and touch more people by just bringing a couple more people to the show and scattering among the rooms. A mfr can't do that.

Marketing is the hardest part of the audio industry, because you never know what will work and when.

The other part of the show that's tough, and this is what I've heard from a number of mfrs is the chances of things getting damaged along the way and how that can effect the outcome. In addition to the costs of just getting people there, you also have to deal with the leftover B-stock after the show. Sometimes it sells, sometimes it doesn't.

So again, for the record, I'm not against the RMAF, just pointing out what the financial involvement is for many companies and how this might affect their participation.

Great post!
 
I'm only relaying what I was told by some high end reps. Basically, the fest is good for the 'philes and not good for business.


With all do respect......"we the 'philes ARE the high end business" !!
 
Great post!

Sunday,

Do you have to quote the entire body of a looooong post just to respond with a short reply (as you did in the previous two posts)? You do this quite often and it just makes the thread so long for no purpose and makes everyone scroll unnecessarily. You could consider just quoting the key lines you are responding to instead of the whole post every time. Just a friendly suggestion.
 
With all do respect......"we the 'philes ARE the high end business" !!

Most experienced 'philes, and there are many on this forum, shop the used market. So it's mostly first-time buyers who pay full retail.
 
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Sunday,

Do you have to quote the entire body of a looooong post just to respond with a short reply (as you did in the previous two posts)? You do this quite often and it just makes the thread so long for no purpose and makes everyone scroll unnecessarily. You could consider just quoting the key lines you are responding to instead of the whole post every time. Just a friendly suggestion.

Can you honestly find anything else to disagree with me about? Stop kvetching!
 
Sunday, Do you have to quote the entire body of a looooong post just to respond with a short reply (as you did in the previous two posts)? You do this quite often and it just makes the thread so long for no purpose and makes everyone scroll unnecessarily. You could consider just quoting the key lines you are responding to instead of the whole post every time. Just a friendly suggestion.

Most experienced 'philes, and there are many on this forum, shop the used market. So it's mostly first-time buyers who pay full retail.

Can you honestly find anything else to disagree with me about? Stop kvetching!

Sunday....... Rich does make a valid point ! Nothing wrong with a clean and tidy house !

Fine, he can be the maid!

Rich, Excellent post!!!
 
Sunday, regarding your post #34 above: I'm not trying to be intentionally disagreeable with you. Just asking a favor from you in helping to keep the threads from getting so long unnecessarily. If you were responding to every sentence in the post individually, I would understand it. But quoting a long post for a three word or one-line response is just a waste of space. It's really just a simple matter of etiquette toward the community.
 
Sunday, regarding your post #34 above: I'm not trying to be intentionally disagreeable with you. Just asking a favor from you in helping to keep the threads from getting so long unnecessarily. If you were responding to every sentence in the post individually, I would understand it. But quoting a long post for a three word or one-line response is just a waste of space. It's really just a simple matter of etiquette toward the community.

Chalk it up to laziness, then let it go!
 

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