Hello I'm a new member with a pair of Sequel 2's..

15 years ago I remember hearing a pair of Quest's at a demo evening in a high end local HIFI shop..I was pretty blown away by them, and having recently taken an interest in upgrading my HIFI, I replaced my PROAC supertowers with a pair of relatively cheap S/H Sequel 2 loudspeakers.
I must say that holographic sound is what captivates me, but I have noticed a problem with them, and wonder if anyone can advise me what to do..

One of the panels is producing little or no output in the middle sections (3) so there is a 'sound hole' in certain listening positions.

Now being an electronics engineer, but new to ML's I'm not sure why this should be the case, as the stators are all one unit, and I presume, so is the membrane/diaphragm?

I tried hoovering them as I thought maybe there was something shorting inside, but no avail. The membrane looks completely without damage etc.

As I bought these a couple of days ago I contacted the owner and he is happy to give me my money back, but also he is happy to help finance a repair.

Any suggestions? Also is it wise to contact ML directly about this?

Many thanks!

Lee

Hi Lee and welcome to the club.

The problem you describe sounds like the panels might be in need of replacement.

after 15 years, the Sequel panels are probably not at their best.

Often, the problem is an owner will have one speaker where the sun hits it for a few hours a day, and not the other. Having UV hit the panel is not a good thing, as it breaks down the Mylar, the spars (the little black things that go across the panel) and break down the glue.

Your options are to return for a refund, or to invest the $1000 or so it will cost to get new panels from your UK dealer. The factory will not ship you new panels if you have a national distributor, all parts must go through them.

I have 15 year old sequel 2’s myself, and the panels are still functional, but due for replacement soon. And I’ve babied mine since I bought them new. A pair that has less care applied, will not last as long.

But once you replace the panel, they are like new. Not a bad value depending on what you paid for the used pair.
You could negotiate a ‘discount’ from the seller towards the cost of the new panels.

Let us know how it goes.

Cheers,

Thanks so much for the reply Jonathon,

I paid 600 pounds for them, and as it seems to be dollar for pound, (they would be 3000 pounds new over here, or just under 6000 dollars I thought that was a reasonable price?)

I take your advice on panel replacement, but I must admit I still don't understand why there is no output whatsoever on some of the sections, if UV affected it, maybe there would have been some output?

A second hand pair of SL3's go for about 1200-1600 pounds here, so I guess some thinking would have to be done if the panels were replaced. Mind you I'd get another 15 years out of them, and they would be SL3 panels, rather than sequel 2 panels?

Can the panels be repaired in anyway I wonder? Could be nothing to lose maybe? I kind of suspect something with the dividers?


Thanks again,

Lee

Leethomas said:

Can the panels be repaired in anyway I wonder? Could be nothing to lose maybe? I kind of suspect something with the dividers?

Click to expand...

Try to vacuum them and if that does not make a difference, time to try the shower method. To vacuum, unplug overnight, then get your hose from your vacuum and clean away. For shower, take the panel off, and rinse them in warm water in the shower, then dry with fans blowing on them. Look at our tweaks section for more on this.

I did the shower on my old panels and I got another 4-5 years from them. I just recently put in new panels and woofers on my Sequel II's (they were 19 years old) - man what a difference the new panels make over the old.

The panels getting older over time are like tubes...you really do not know how much they have aged until you replace them. Or in the panel case vacuum or shower them.

Dan

Goodness the showering method sounds a bit scary! I'll have a look up on that method. Our water here is quite hard (it causes limescale) I tried vacuuming them already, that did not make any difference. I guess then it's the sheet diaphragm that deteriorates, do ML supply just that, ie is it possible to rebuild it yourself?

Thanks,

Lee

Lee, the fact that it's only part of the panel not operating tells me the spars have either hardened, come loose or somehow, the conductivity of the Mylar in those sections is lost. Either way, it's time to replace the panels.

Given the cost differential between your current set (£500) and the used SL3 you mention (£1.200), I'd stick with the Sequels and get new panels.

BTW- the panels on the Sequels and the SL3 are 100% identical. The factory spare part goes into either one. When you get your new panels, they will have the nice new 'clear spar' spars that are translucent (vs black on your current panels).

As Dan mentions, it will be night and day to switch to new panels. And they will last another 15 years if well cared for.

The woofer might also be due for an update, but that's much simpler to accomplish and can be done with non-ML sourced parts (read: cheaper in the UK).

If updating both woofer and Panels, you will have the equivalent of a new £3.000 speaker for an investment of around £500 (Used Sequels)+550 (replacement panels)+150 (replacement woofer)= £1.200

Which is why used ML's are still such a great value in the speaker world.

Leethomas said:

...I guess then it's the sheet diaphragm that deteriorates, do ML supply just that, ie is it possible to rebuild it yourself?

Thanks,

Lee

Click to expand...

Lee, no way to rebuild (effectively) a ML panel. Seems like a waste, but unless you take the stators back to the factory and rerun them back through the production line, using their specialized jigs and tensioning systems, then it's pretty hopeless. And since the cost of the perforated stators pales compared to the labor expense and unique construction process (and associated machines), it makes sense that the stators are in essence 'disposable'.

The replacement part cost (at least in the USA) is very reasonable considering the manufacturing complexities.

Bottom line, ordering new panels is the answer to your quandary on these Sequels.

Thanks a lot for your replies, Jonathon and Dan.

I'm going to ring absolute sounds tomorrow about panel renewel.

I've read on this site that new panels sound brighter. Goodness, well these sequels don't exactly sound dull! I don't really want any more brightness!

I have just tonight been to an orchestral concert, and sat very near the front, and so am really tuned in on realism at the moment.

I have pair of Castles as well as Proac's, the castles sound much duller but more 'woody' than the Martins, which is quite nice on some instruments, and vocals; and I'm just making comments on tonal characteristics here. But of course they can't touch the Martins for detail and holography, even my so called 'knackered' ones.

I'm coming to the conclusion that people here are saying if you but older ML's, then you'e gonna have to look at panel replacement;

By the way I'm an electronics engineer and write DSP software, and am capable of all sorts of hardware tasks from building up boards with extremely tight soldering tasks, to rebuilding engines and cabinetry; and so tying to fix ML panels doesn't phase me, I see it as a challenge; I would actually love to have a go; There's a guy with CLz 's on here I notice he's pulled them apart!

Anyway I'm having a nice time reading on here about ML's and am amazed how helpful you've been; so many thanks once again;

Lee

Hi Lee,

I hear you on the panel repair, but trust me, guys with decades of ESL construction experience over on DIYAudio all will tell you, that there is no way to redo a curved panel ESL on your own. And having personally toured the ML factory, I can attest that it really is not possible without the right tools, jigs and materials, to refresh a ML panel oneself.


Hey, since you're a EE and into DSP, you might be interested in going fully active on your Sequels. Those speakers can sound so much better if you bypass the internal crossovers and use a DSP based processor, like the DBX Driveracks. The woofer can be powered by any low-cost pro-sound amp, like a Crown XLS series, which are available pretty cheap on the used market.
This is not for everyone, but it sounds like you have the right skill set for this.

Read my SL3XC thread for more ideas and details on this.

Cheers,

Buy new panels. Life will be better.

~VDR

Thanks everyone for your replies!

Now I live in rip off Great Britain.

I phoned Absolute sounds and they quoted me 900 pounds for new panels!

I met the splendid gentleman who sold me the Sequels, and he offered to take the Sequels back, or an arrangement where I buy them at much lower price which I did for 25% of the original cost.

At this price I can mess around with them and not cry if I wreck them!

I've been in contact with an ESL company who tells me that the conductive material has come off the Mylar, and that I can clean and recoat; Alternatively they can refurb them. Shipping costs are a great consideration.

Inceidently after all I'd read about the Sequels lousy bass, I thought mine were good: I am driving them with EAR 509 Mk2's. which go to 1 ohm.
I found out from the owner that he had the sequels modified and braced and th drive unit more securely attached, the guy who did it was an SL3 owner and he indicated they were pvery good after that.

It's all very interesting, if not time consuming but fascinating too!

Lee