Equipment cooling - dedicated AC

dual-purpose?

Funny side-effect of the new cool-room:

The wife noticed ‘boy, it sure is cool in here now’ and immediately started scheming on how to integrate the wine storage into my equipment room. Seems it’s just the right temp for storing her several hundred bottles of home-made wines (don’t laugh, it’s pretty good stuff, remember, she’s French after all , that, and she buys the über-expensive kits ).

Now I can drink cool red’s without even having to leave the theater, how cool is that?

JonFo said:

Funny side-effect of the new cool-room:

The wife noticed ‘boy, it sure is cool in here now’ and immediately started scheming on how to integrate the wine storage into my equipment room. Seems it’s just the right temp for storing her several hundred bottles of home-made wines (don’t laugh, it’s pretty good stuff, remember, she’s French after all , that, and she buys the über-expensive kits ).

Now I can drink cool red’s without even having to leave the theater, how cool is that?

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Now that's what I call a useful hobby. Back when I still drank, I used to make my own beer. I always wanted to try wine, but it is a lot more difficult to get right.

I can hear Jonathan giving a tour now: "And this is my hi fi listening room / home theater / wine cellar."

amey01 said:

Glad it's worked out.

A good filter is definitely worth it. These are the filters I run in mine.......

http://www.austair.com.au/Filters/AntiMicr.html

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I just changed my filters for the first time. Now, I don't consider us dirty people by any means - our house is almost hospital clean (even the dog knows to wait outside until his paws have been wiped!), but the anti-microbial pleats were caked with dust - all in just nine months!

Dust that would otherwise have been on my Vistas! Well worth it.

Adam.

Amey, yes, having filtered air around our 'stats is the thing to do. And even 'clean' homes have a good bit of "stuff" to be caught by the filters.

My latest tweak there was to put the AustinAire HEPA filter on an automation plug that is switched off whenever the amps are on (for a nice quiet room) and switched on when the amps are off (for dust/pollen/smell free room).

I don't even have to think about it now, it just does its thing whenever I'm not using the system.

To add to Jonathan’s experience…….

For years, I’ve tolerated an audio room uncomfortably warm during summer listening sessions and, since the room is detached from the main house, I started eyeing mini-split systems a couple of years ago as a likely solution to the problem. Jonathan’s favorable experience, along with the recent addition of several pieces of tube gear to exacerbate my heat problems, finally pushed me over the edge. Last week, I had the very same system (Fujitsu 12RLQ) installed. In my case, it’s cooling/heating ~2400 cubic feet including a small, attached bath.

The cost was quite reasonable. Because the installer was able to run electrical and A/C plumbing bits into the cavity and vent pipe from the now-removed wall heater, the installation is as tidy as one could possibly wish for. The room cools from ambient in a matter of minutes, is cool as a cucumber and, during at least moderately hot weather (we’ve not had a scorcher yet!), is virtually inaudible (21dB in Quiet mode).

For anyone in a similar situation, I can heartily recommend it.

RUR said:

...

For anyone in a similar situation, I can heartily recommend it.

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RUR, thanks for sharing your experience with it as well. I'm glad to see it did the trick for you in your much larger room.

The other 'cool' thing about these variable compressor units is how the external unit is likewise near-silent. Here we are in the middle of a Summer heat wave in the Southeast and I've still not been able to hear he Fujitsu unit outside unless I'm within a few feet of it. Even then, it's barely purring.

And, efficient it sure is, my power bills (in KWh) have stayed consistent with last year, even though it's been hotter.

At first I was : it can't be using NO power, but what it has done is reduce the need to run the larger AC unit as much. Therefore actual power savings

What does something like that cost JonFo? I've been thinking of putting A/C in the garage.

I'm not JonFo, but I got four quotes from reputable heating guys (from the Fujitsu site so I knew they were familiar with the unit and its installation). Two came in @ $3,500-ish, one @ $5,500 and one @ $6,500. Since a little online research shows that the unit, itself, sells for ~$1,700 and the installation is very straightforward, I chose not to make a significant contribution to high-priced guys' kids education and instead selected one of the less expensive contractors. Fantastic job and no regrets. The lower BTU, lower SEER units are a few hundred less.

A cautionary tale about soliciting multiple quotes.....

RUR said:

I'm not JonFo, but I got four quotes from reputable heating guys (from the Fujitsu site so I knew they were familiar with the unit and its installation). Two came in @ $3,500-ish, one @ $5,500 and one @ $6,500. Since a little online research shows that the unit, itself, sells for ~$1,700 and the installation is very straightforward, I chose not to make a significant contribution to high-priced guys' kids education and instead selected one of the less expensive contractors. Fantastic job and no regrets. The lower BTU, lower SEER units are a few hundred less.

A cautionary tale about soliciting multiple quotes.....

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Yes, installation can vary wildly, but so can their method. It's great you have no regrets. I had a system installed in my old house (a Hitachi split) and had a really cheap quote. When I asked them how they were going to do it (especially getting the power to the unit) I found out they were going to use conduit from an easy part of the house instead of hiding the wiring in the walls!

So watch out - installation is not installation!

thanks for the replies. Hmm. Not nearly as bad as I thought. Can you post the link to the equipment that you would recommend?

Thanks,
jtwrace

amey01 said:

Yes, installation can vary wildly, but so can their method. It's great you have no regrets. I had a system installed in my old house (a Hitachi split) and had a really cheap quote. When I asked them how they were going to do it (especially getting the power to the unit) I found out they were going to use conduit from an easy part of the house instead of hiding the wiring in the walls!

So watch out - installation is not installation!

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Yup, I'm well aware of the potential pitfalls, having learned the hard way once or twice. I made sure all of the contractors quoted the exact same installation methods, including how and where the wires were to be run, type and quality of materials to be used, etc., in detail and in writing. Really, the only variable was quoted cost, which is why the large spread in quotes was surprising.

jtwrace said:

thanks for the replies. Hmm. Not nearly as bad as I thought. Can you post the link to the equipment that you would recommend?

Thanks,
jtwrace

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Here's a link to the family of systems JonFo and I used. As with any A/C-heating product, it should be sized to suit your particular application.

thank you. Very interesting. I wonder if I could actually have the blower part mounted low in the foundation??? Then the outside unit could be near all the other units for the house. Then all the plumbing would be under the house. I saw this forum on the search: http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/index.php

jtwrace said:

thank you. Very interesting. I wonder if I could actually have the blower part mounted low in the foundation??? Then the outside unit could be near all the other units for the house. Then all the plumbing would be under the house. I saw this forum on the search: http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/index.php

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There are other styles that mount on the floor, such as this one from Hitachi

http://www.hitachiaircon.com/argws/group.do?action=getGroup&groupId=542&rangeId=1&categoryId=2

However, is this a listening room or an equipment room like Jon? If it's a listening room, I wouldn't put a single unit as it creates draughts and noise. I'd put a proper ducted system in the ceiling space with large, oversized ducts to keep noise down.

Here's a link to the APAC unit I've installed - Mine's is the SO23 (23kW, but it does the whole house).

http://www.carrieraircon.com.au/Products/pdf/SU023002.pdf

It's for my garage.

jtwrace said:

What does something like that cost JonFo? I've been thinking of putting A/C in the garage.

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Jason, I paid $3,500 for my setup, including installation (well, plus the cement pad I had to build).

I'd say that $3,000 to $3,500 installed is fair. $2,500 is a good deal, and you might find one at the price if you wait until September of October.

AC is a variable pricing business, with Fall and Spring being ideal seasons to purchase in, as the HVAC business is generally slower then.

As noted, the actual unit itself can be purchased for $1,700 (but only with Manufacturer warranty).

A full package install will including full coverage for problems with the unit (ensure that's in your contract though). The option is there, and I did get a quote for $500 to install the unit if I purchased. But I’d rather support local business and get the peace of mind on warranty and service.
Matter of fact, that same company just had to come back out and service my 5 ton central AC, so it pays to be on good terms with them when the temps are in the high 90’s

If for the Garage, you might get away with a cheaper unit. But only the RLQ series uses the whisper quiet (and ultra-efficient) compressors. The internal units are all pretty quiet in this line.

Personally, I'd spend a bit more on the RLQ's just for the power efficiency alone, payback could be a couple of years (or less at the rate electricity is going up).

jtwrace said:

thank you. Very interesting. I wonder if I could actually have the blower part mounted low in the foundation??? Then the outside unit could be near all the other units for the house. Then all the plumbing would be under the house. I saw this forum on the search: http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/index.php

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Jason, when you say 'blower' are you talking about the indoor or outdoors unit?

If it's the Compressor that sits outdoors, it can be mounted much lower, but only 26' of vertical ascent, and less than 50' of linesets between Compressor and internal unit.

BTW- one of the Comments on HVACTalk is not correct; he claims over sizing could lead to over cycling and failure. That is true of non-variable compressor units. The RLQ's do not 'cycle' full-on / full-off like other AC's. They ramp up proportionately to the temperature differentials between interior and exterior.

This is why a one ton unit in a 90 Sq/ft room works for me (even though the heat load is high relative to Sq. Ft).

jtwrace said:

It's for my garage.

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Huh? Are your cars getting a little hot while they're parked?

amey01 said:

Huh? Are your cars getting a little hot while they're parked?

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Yes, why? You seem confused.

jtwrace said:

Yes, why? You seem confused.

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Well, if you've got the money, why not keep your cars and lawnmower comfortable?