Help - Summit Problem

Recently upgraded my Jeff Rowland 201 monoblocks to JR 501's and my Wadia 581i CD to a Wadia 581i SE. I ran into an insolated problem when playing certain songs (e.g., Steely Dan AJA) at higher volumes: A loss of speaker sound accompanied by clicking sounds for a few seconds at the same spot in the song. The problem does not occur at lower volumes and only certain parts of certain songs. My cabling is all Nordost Valhalla. Any ideas on the potential source of the problem? Dealer seems to think that it is a Summit problem.

I'm not sure this is the problem, but it might be. I believe the JR 501's are Ice-Power based. Some of the earliest Summits had a design glitch which manifested only if they were driven by Ice-Powered amps. ML redesigned the power board circuits, and can send you replacement boards with D-I-Y instructions. I would call ML with your serial number and see if it was one of those affected versions. Hopefully you're the original owner, and ML (and/or your dealer) will take care of this. The later Summits shipped with the upgraded design.

Don't know for sure, but it sounds like your cd player is skipping. Perhaps at louder volumes, the heavy bass of the summits is causing vibration in your cd player and that is causing the laser pickup to have read errors. Try borrowing a different player from someone and play these same songs. If the problem goes away, then you know your new Wadia is having problems probably due to an over-sensitivity to vibration.

If it just started happening when you changed out components, why would your dealer think it is the speaker? If it is happening at the same spot on particular songs, I can't imagine it is a problem with the Summits. Much more likely to be a problem with the CD player or the amp, in my opinion.

sleepysurf said:

Some of the earliest Summits had a design glitch which manifested only if they were driven by Ice-Powered amps. ML redesigned the power board circuits, and can send you replacement boards with D-I-Y instructions. I would call ML with your serial number and see if it was one of those affected versions.

Click to expand...

Good call, Sleepy. I forgot about that. Could be a potential conflict between the Summit and the Ice Power Rowland amps.

sounds like something's being overloaded

I don't think it's the speakers; but if you're running the Wadia direct into the Rowlands, you may (for reasons that have to do with the recent mods to each unit) now have a slight mismatch between the two units and you might be either (1) overloading the amp's input stage, or you might be (2) clipping the Wadia's output stage when you crank up the volume control (which is on the Wadia, right?) From your description of the symptoms, it sounds to me like it's the latter. There are dip switches inside the Wadia which allow you to change the operating range of the volume/output. I'd call Wadia to confirm this and get their recommendation. Also, I was intrigued by the possible Ice-power problem. You should definitely call ML too and have them check your speakers' vintage.

If you have a preamp, you could try inserting it in the chain just to see if it will buffer the Wadia from the amp (but you should still be able to run direct, if you have things set properly.) If you're already are using a preamp and this is happening, then there are too many variables for me to advise you :bowdown: Sorry!

Both Sleepysurf and nsgarch have good suggestions to check out.

If you are running your Wadia directly into the amps then you should adjust your dip switches inside the unit to so that the volume level is at least 70. 100 is max. it is easy to do but if you had the Wadia a while then you probably already know how to do this.

Some CDs are louder than others and I find SACDs are usually quieter than Redbook CDs. I don't know if the volume output is cause and if the volume is set too high then it would be pretty loud before getting to 70 or if clipping.

I you are using ICE power amps then you should check the serial numbers with ML to see if your speakers have the newer circuit boards. If you're under warranty they should send them to you at no cost. However, to replace them you'll need to remove the panels and front woofer to access the board. I have the instructions if you need a copy.

Both Sleepysurf and nsgarch have good suggestions to check out.

If you are running your Wadia directly into the amps then you should adjust your dip switches inside the unit to so that the volume level is at least 70. 100 is max. it is easy to do but if you had the Wadia a while then you probably already know how to do this.

Some CDs are louder than others and I find SACDs are usually quieter than Redbook CDs. I don't know if the volume output is cause and if the volume is set too high then it would be pretty loud before getting to 70 or if clipping.

I you are using ICE power amps then you should check the serial numbers with ML to see if your speakers have the newer circuit boards. You will need the newer boards if your running the ICE amps.

If you're under warranty they should send them to you at no cost. However, to replace them you'll need to remove the panels and front woofer to access the board. I have the instructions if you need a copy. Also if the circuit board cuts out then check the led light in the back to see if it turns from green to red.

Both Sleepysurf and nsgarch have good suggestions to check out.

If you are running your Wadia directly into the amps then you should adjust your dip switches inside the unit to so that the volume level is at least 70. 100 is max. it is easy to do but if you had the Wadia a while then you probably already know how to do this.

Some CDs are louder than others and I find SACDs are usually quieter than Redbook CDs. I don't know if the volume output is cause and if the volume is set too high then it would be pretty loud before getting to 70 or if clipping.

I you are using ICE power amps then you should check the serial numbers with ML to see if your speakers have the newer circuit boards. You will need the newer boards if your running the ICE amps.

If you're under warranty they should send them to you at no cost. However, to replace them you'll need to remove the panels and front woofer to access the board. I have the instructions if you need a copy. Also if the circuit board cuts out then check the led light in the back to see if it turns from green to red.

Hopefully, it's just the CD skipping. Some of these players are very sensitive and will skip if the there is a speck or scratch on the discs.

I think you need the upgraded modules for your Summits. But maybe it's also your CDP.

Call ML and speak to Jim Powers.

seems like a power amp...

Hola...did you have the same problem with your other amps?...if the answer is no, then the only change that you made is your new amps, right?...can you get the ones that you had before?...it looks that you did not have this problem before. Happy listening,
Roberto.

DId you just get your Wadia back from being upgraded?

If the UPS guys might have dropped your player during the trip
it could have screwed up the laser alignment.

Here's a tip if you didn't know it that was passed on to me by a couple
of mfrs....

When you ship a piece of hifi gear, always insure it for at least 10k. It
will cost a few bucks extra, but both FedEx and UPS give anything insured
for 10k or more special handling because they don't like paying out claims of that value....

FedEx and UPS people have both confirmed that this is true.

(though I'm sure your 581i is pretty close to that amount anyway)

But seriously, since I started doing this, I have not had an equipment shipping problem and it only costs on average about 20-40 bucks more per
box on things that aren't worth that much.

For your sake, I really hope its a module in your Summits that you can replace rather than having to send it back to Wadia!

I am a shipping manager and if you want UPS to give your package the white glove treatment insure for at least $5K. It will then be considered HIGH VALUE . Your package would then not even touch the conveyor belt and each person who touches that box must sign off to the next person.

tonepub said:

When you ship a piece of hifi gear, always insure it for at least 10k. It
will cost a few bucks extra, but both FedEx and UPS give anything insured
for 10k or more special handling because they don't like paying out claims of that value....

FedEx and UPS people have both confirmed that this is true.

Click to expand...

longhorn said:

I am a shipping manager and if you want UPS to give your package the white glove treatment insure for at least $5K. It will then be considered HIGH VALUE . Your package would then not even touch the conveyor belt and each person who touches that box must sign off to the next person.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip! :rocker:

I want to thank all of you for your informative and helpful replies. I'm not running the Wadia directly to the monoblocks. I'm using a Jeff Rowland Capri preamp.

My dealer has informed me that he had the same problem with his Ascents and was told by ML that he needed to replace an electrical panel as some of you have suggested. He is going to contact ML directly and see what they recommend, but if the panel needs replacing he will perform the swap himself. Thanks again for your great help, I'll keep you posted on my progress.