System #45 (Monolith IIIx, SL3XC, Sequel II)

New HDMI card for PJ

I replaced my late 2005 vintage DVI input card for my CRT PJ with a brand spanking new HDMI version of said input card. This time featuring fully adjustable Gama controls to better manage low level black in the signal. It also features IR adjustable Gamma settings so I can tweak for specific source material if needed. Especially handy as the Card is inside the PJ, which is inside a hush box.

The upgrade is immediate and noticeable on several fronts:

- Shadow detail! There is now shadow detail in HD content
- Quicker HDCP handshakes with finicky players like my Toshiba HD-A1
- Even component looks a ton better. Gamma has a bit to do with it, but also signal looks ‘cleaner’.
- IR Control of inputs and minor gamma tuning is handy
- Gamma correction, I can actually see all the gradations in DVE-HD now.

System review - Rich

Now that my get-together this year happened, I'd like to quote a review of my system by our fellow member - Rich:

Orginal posted in this thread

Rich said:

...

Jonathan's theater room is absolutely phenomenal. The equipment setup is an engineer's dream. Jonathan has complete control over every aspect of every speaker in his system, and has rigorously measured and calibrated phase, time alignments, crossover settings, and every thing else you can think of until the system just sounds superb. He has two huge equipment racks full of gear, and probably more cabling than I have ever seen in my entire life. I feel sorry for him if he ever decides to re-cable his system. It would take months.

The centerpiece (literally) of his system is the custom SL3XC center channel with mid-bass line array and infinite baffle sub that Jonathan built himself. It sounds stunning and really anchored the soundstage for the monoliths. Having such a capable center channel makes a huge difference in the soundstage height and width. I have never experienced an ML system that sounded so good from anywhere in the room as Jonathan's did. There was just a wall of sound coming from the entire front wall of the theater and the soundstage and imaging held up pretty much no matter where you sat. Very impressive.

Not only is the gear in this theater to die for, but Jonathan and Liz have done a wonderful job decorating and treating the room acoustically. It is a really nice theater, very comfortable, and very artistically designed (Liz is a great artist, so this was no stretch).

Jonathan pleasured us with tons of great demo material, both audio and video. I loved the "Animusic" videos. Can't wait to purchase those for my own theater. Lots of great music. I had to make a list of things I liked and need to add to my collection. But the A/V was only a small part of what made this a great day.

...

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JonFo said:

I replaced my late 2005 vintage DVI input card for my CRT PJ with a brand spanking new HDMI version of said input card. This time featuring fully adjustable Gama controls to better manage low level black in the signal. It also features IR adjustable Gamma settings so I can tweak for specific source material if needed. Especially handy as the Card is inside the PJ, which is inside a hush box.

The upgrade is immediate and noticeable on several fronts:

- Shadow detail! There is now shadow detail in HD content
- Quicker HDCP handshakes with finicky players like my Toshiba HD-A1
- Even component looks a ton better. Gamma has a bit to do with it, but also signal looks ‘cleaner’.
- IR Control of inputs and minor gamma tuning is handy
- Gamma correction, I can actually see all the gradations in DVE-HD now.

Click to expand...

Congrats on the new HDMI card! HDMI really makes a huge difference.

Enjoy!

JonFo said:

Now that my get-together this year happened, I'd like to quote a review of my system by our fellow member - Rich:

Orginal posted in this thread

Click to expand...

That's one heck of a nice review Rich gave you. Your system must sound amazing. And now with your new HDMI card for your PJ, you now have the best in both sight and sound. Wow!

PS3 Games and Blu-Ray added

So, after boycotting Sony for over a year for being such a PITA about a non-standard HD format. I gave in and bought a PS3 to be able to play back Blu-Ray discs and get ready for GrandTurismo 5 HD.
Since I dig driving games, I also got DiRT.

I did have to create a 720p preset in my projector (that's another PITA) for the game though.

Blu-Ray looks fine (same as HD-DVD)in 1080i. So no surprises there.

The big news is that the PS3 is a kick-ass upscaling DVD player as well.

And with firmware 2.x it can now play back 5.1 soundtracks from TVersity streams. Very cool, as I 'time shift' my rentals onto a server.

Racing wheel

With the new PS3, the racing wheel is getting used a good bit more. So here is pic of the custom wheel mount that attaches to the hushbox.

The extension of the mount is adjustable (slides in and out, and locks with a knurled nut), so different arm lengths are accommodated (like for my nephew, who thinks this is too cool ).

More pics of the wheel and racing sim discussion on this thread.

Jonathan, nice "Rig" , but man that dosen't look like the 'Hurst' Competition Plus shifter that I'm used too !!!

remember.....yee who dies with the most toys..Wins !!

BTW, I'm still enjoying that compulation disc you made !!

Your Solution for Balanced<->Unbalanced Conversions

Jon,

This thread hasn't seen some action lately so I figured I'd chime in. In total, your system is staggering both in size and scope. I could not add any more to what's already been said on that basis (without hearing/seeing it for myself of course!), so if you don't mind, I'd like to ask a specific "setup" question:

I've spent (too much!) time looking over your bass management page and related graphic. For anyone who hasn't seen these yet, go and check them out now! I'll wait till you come back.

I'm curious about the balanced<->unbalanced conversion connections between the Sony and dbx's/Behringer and from those processors to the amps. On your Bass Management page, you briefly mention using the Jensen Iso-Max Model PC-2RX but I cannot find this unit available on Jensen's website. It *does* list the PC-2XR, however. Reviewing Jensen's FAQ, I suppose if your build was undertaken from scratch today, if I understand it correctly, you would use their DM2-2XX between the Sony and processors and the PC-2XR between the processors and amps.

The reason for my interest was the recent loss of my dbx 20/20 and interest in their new DriveRack PX discussed in this thread. I have never needed to "visit" balanced<->unbalanced conversion, so this is all new - I apologize in advance for what is probably rudimentary, but I am hopeful that others will find your discussion interesting! :bowdown:

mcmd said:

Jon,

This thread hasn't seen some action lately so I figured I'd chime in. In total, your system is staggering both in size and scope. I could not add any more to what's already been said on that basis (without hearing/seeing it for myself of course!), so if you don't mind, I'd like to ask a specific "setup" question:

I've spent (too much!) time looking over your bass management page and related graphic. For anyone who hasn't seen these yet, go and check them out now! I'll wait till you come back.

I'm curious about the balanced<->unbalanced conversion connections between the Sony and dbx's/Behringer and from those processors to the amps. On your Bass Management page, you briefly mention using the Jensen Iso-Max Model PC-2RX but I cannot find this unit available on Jensen's website. It *does* list the PC-2XR, however. Reviewing Jensen's FAQ, I suppose if your build was undertaken from scratch today, if I understand it correctly, you would use their DM2-2XX between the Sony and processors and the PC-2XR between the processors and amps.

The reason for my interest was the recent loss of my dbx 20/20 and interest in their new DriveRack PX discussed in this thread. I have never needed to "visit" balanced<->unbalanced conversion, so this is all new - I apologize in advance for what is probably rudimentary, but I am hopeful that others will find your discussion interesting! :bowdown:

Click to expand...

Hi MCM, thanks for the comments, it’s staggering in complexity as well, I keep documenting stuff here and at home just be able to keep it all straight

The Jensen transformers are indeed a ‘special order’ but almost any unit from them is hand built to order. They do stock a few of the more popular ones. Just call them and order that DM-2RX, they’ll get it to you in a day or two after the order.

The difference between the DM and PC is that the PC series also does a gain conversion between +4dBu Pro level and -10dBu Consumer levels, however, it only does it from pro to consumer, not the other way around (i.e it’s a step-down transformer). The DM is a 1:1 transformer. So it can be used in any ‘orientation’, that’s it can be used for input matching unbalanced to balanced, or matching the output of balanced solutions to unbalanced. But it’s main goal is isolation, and they are excellent at that.

When I tried to order the PC version back in '03, they talked me into the DM version for the reasons outlined above. I had forgotten that detail until now.
My site description needs to be corrected, I actually have two DM series in the system now, I just checked

JonFo said:

Hi MCM, thanks for the comments, it’s staggering in complexity as well, I keep documenting stuff here and at home just be able to keep it all straight

Click to expand...

I don't doubt that for a moment!

JonFo said:

The Jensen transformers are indeed a ‘special order’ but almost any unit from them is hand built to order. They do stock a few of the more popular ones. Just call them and order that DM-2RX, they’ll get it to you in a day or two after the order.

Click to expand...

Thanks, good to know.

JonFo said:

The difference between the DM and PC is that the PC series also does a gain conversion between +4dBu Pro level and -10dBu Consumer levels, however, it only does it from pro to consumer, not the other way around (i.e it’s a step-down transformer).

Click to expand...

With all of the XLR<->RCA converter cables available, I wondered why the Jensen "approach" was necessary, but after reading their white papers here (specifically the one addressing balanced<->unbalanced system interconnection), I believe I now understand why converter cables are inadequate. Bonus: for those who are dealing with hum in a system, go check that page out. There are pdfs there which explain the electrical origins of hum in an unbalanced system and then a troubleshooting guide on how to isolate and remove it. Spectacular!

JonFo said:

The DM is a 1:1 transformer. So it can be used in any ‘orientation’, that’s it can be used for input matching unbalanced to balanced, or matching the output of balanced solutions to unbalanced. But it’s main goal is isolation, and they are excellent at that.

Click to expand...

OK, so going from unbalanced to balanced, gain conversion is not needed and you'd put the DM-2RX between the preamp and processors. Then, post-processing you'd need the PC-2XR to do gain conversion from the processor's balanced output to the amp's input (assuming of course, that the amp has only an unbalanced input). Did I get that right?

JonFo said:

When I tried to order the PC version back in '03, they talked me into the DM version for the reasons outlined above. I had forgotten that detail until now. My site description needs to be corrected, I actually have two DM series in the system now, I just checked

Click to expand...

As you said, your system is staggering in its own complexity... I'm glad I was able to do my part in helping you document just how complex it is! Thanks again for your help!

mcmd said:

...
OK, so going from unbalanced to balanced, gain conversion is not needed and you'd put the DM-2RX between the preamp and processors. Then, post-processing you'd need the PC-2XR to do gain conversion from the processor's balanced output to the amp's input (assuming of course, that the amp has only an unbalanced input). Did I get that right?
...

Click to expand...

The gain management on input side is not strictly required, as most pro gear can deal with fairly low level signals and boost cleanly. The DriveRacks sure do fine in this regard.

Assuming the amps only take unbalanced, then yes, you need a PC-2XR.

Luckily, most of the amps one would use for MartinLogans typically have both, so no need for the extra transformer set.

Room acoustics tune-up

Since the room is one of the most important aspects of audio reproduction, I regret to say I left it languishing for almost eight years before I dedicated some serious time and money to it.
As noted earlier, I did design and build the room around these ML speakers, and the basic room performance is pretty good. I even spent a close to $4K on initial acoustic treatments, which made a noticeable difference in the room response.

But during December 2007 through January 2008, I got really serious and investigated the impacts of speaker placement and room acoustics on the final reproduced sound.
This was thoroughly documented in this thread on placement and room treatments. It is chock full of measurements, graphs and great discussion about the importance of room acoustics.

One of my conclusions is that one should investigate and invest in room treatments way before one spends a dime on cables or other such non-critical elements.
No amp, pre or source tweak, model or other selection can possibly make the kind of radical difference in room response that a well placed set of room treatments can.
The resulting improvements in sound quality and enjoyment are nothing short of impressive.

The biggest gain comes from the reduction and management of unwanted room resonances. These are the ‘ringing’ of mid and high frequencies, but equally important, the reduction in low-frequency room mode induced ringing and ‘overhang’ that muddies bass and mid-bass response.

Now that the room is treated fairly well (still need to work on the ceiling), the changes are dramatic, and completely documented in the thread listed above.

Room treatment placement

Pictures of the room treatments are in the big thread on acoustic treatments, starting on page 12.

Here is a diagram of where all the room treatments go.

Timing is everything ...

As part of the big acoustics re-do, I also re-adjusted EQ’s and just as important, the delays between the various elements in the system.

As I document in great detail (I seem to have a penchant for that ) in this thread, it is clear that getting the timing correct between all elements of a big multicannel rig are critical.

Now that I’ve had the system tuned for a few weeks, I can say the resulting cohesive soundfield is simply amazing.
All the multichannel Content (SACD, DVD-A, DVD, HD-DVD, BluRay) are all creating uniform soundfields in the room. One no longer ‘hears’ a speaker, one hears sounds located at various points in front of, behind or between speakers in a incredibly wide and deep soundscape.

Keeping cool

More additions, this time having to do with heat management and keeping the equipment room quiet, as well as cool.

As you see in the HT room diagram above, there is an adjacent equipment room for the home theater. This room is packed with two 7’ racks full of audio/video gear, several PC’s, several UPS’s, the balanced power sub-system, Satellite dish powered multiplexers (that Spaun runs ultra-hot) and an 8’ tall 19” Telco rack structured wiring / patch panel with gigabit switches, routers and other networking gear.

I figure the equipment is throwing off >8 or 9,000 BTU’s when it’s going strong.

Plus, the cooling fans in some of the gear start to get loud once you have several dozen of them whirring at a time. So closing the doors to equipment room is desired, but the heat has to go somewhere.

The solution was to get a 12,000 BTU mini-split heat-pump system to air-condition that room and not worry about cooking the gear.

Results from deploying a Fujitsu Halcyon 12RLQ system are fabulous. Quiet, very quiet, and keeps the temp absolutely constant. At 21 SEER, it’s also an efficiency champ. I figure it will pay for itself in HVAC-related power saving in less than four years.

Further details and pics in this thread http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6287

DriveRack 4800

As I’ve mentioned before, I’m looking to simplify my system, as at the moment, it’s daunting to operate and a bear to maintain. But it met my goals for control and precision.

One aspect I was never too happy with was all the Behringer gear, but it was a factor of a slowly evolving system, and I was proving approaches.

Now that the speaker management aspects of the system are pretty well fleshed out, it’s time to move on to the final solution (he says confidently ) for speaker management.

So, out goes all the Behringer gear from the rack, and in comes a $5,000 DBX Driverack 4800 Speaker processor that will take on the front three channels and the sub.



The 4800 is a beautiful piece of gear with ultra-high resolution A/D/A, four input channels, and eight outputs; it can handle L/C/R and the Sub on the input side, and on the outputs, will feed the front three channels Panels/Bass (6 channels), plus support the IB sub (1) and Tactile transducer (1).

The existing pair of DriveRack 260’s will be reconfigured as follows:
One DR 260 to be sold (Another forum member with Monoliths has dibs on it, as it’s nicely pre-configured for Monoliths)
The other DR 260 will be reconfigured for rear-channel duties.

So when I’m done, I’ll have only two boxes between the preamp and the amps. Much simpler than the six devices currently in play.

The diagram below shows the config I’m working towards in the next few weeks. The Denon AVP is still a few months out, though.

Your incredible system just continues to evolve into an even more incredible system. As always, I am awed by your technical no-how, your ability to organize a very complex setup, and your drive to continue to improve your system. By the way, I think you win the forum award for most feet of cable in an audio system.

Thanks Rich, it sure is fun to push the envelope.

We had some neighbors over last night, and they are big Pink Floyd fans, so I put on the Dark Side of the Moon SACD and cranked it up.
They commented that they were hearing things they had not heard in all 40 years of listening to that album over and over.

As for

By the way, I think you win the forum award for most feet of cable in an audio system

Click to expand...

LOL, Yep, I bought a 500’ spool and only have 35’ left. But, I’m about to replace it all, it’s been there for 8 years and is beginning to show oxidation. So I’ll be buying a spool or two of Blue Jean Cable 10 gauge to redo the wiring when I get some new amps.

Speaking of which, not depicted in the diagram, but I’m in discussions with Roger Sanders regarding the following proposed stack of amps:

ESL-
Monolith Panel – left front - Sanders Monoblock
Monolith Panel – right front - Sanders Monoblock
SL3XC Panel – center front - Sanders Monoblock
Sequel Panel – left rear - Sanders Stereo Ch1
Sequel Panel – right rear - Sanders Stereo Ch2
SL3SC Panel – left side - Sanders Stereo Ch1
SL3SC Panel – right side - Sanders Stereo Ch2

Low freq.-
Monolith Woofer – left front – Sunfire Stereo Ch1
Monolith Woofer – right front - Sunfire Stereo Ch2
SL3XC LineArray – center front - Sunfire CG Ch1
Sequel Woofer – left rear - Sunfire CG Ch2
Sequel woofer – right rear - Sunfire CG Ch3
SL3SC Mid-bass – left side - Sunfire CG Ch4
SL3SC Mid-bass – right side - Sunfire CG Ch5
Infinite Baffle Sub – Crown K2

I would love to go all Sanders amps, but since I already have the Sunfire Cinema Grand signature and Stereo amps (recently refurbished by the factory), those will be fine for woofer duties.
Adding 5 Sanders amps on the critical ESL components should improve the system noticeably.

This will surely get me the coveted ‘most amps in a single system’ award

Holly Molly !! No wonder the "National Grid" is so severly taxed !! LOL !

Jonathan, without doubt, your threads are the most enlightning on the board !

twich54 said:

…

Jonathan, without doubt, your threads are the most enlightening on the board !

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Hi Dave, thanks and I hope they are entertaining as well

I’m sure they are also confusing to some, as they do get technical and sometimes I assume a bit to much context in the post.