Taming high freq brightness on SL3

Always loved my ML's for my HT. SL3, Cinema, Script i.

But I have upgraded to a really revealing system for 2 channel. All tubes. Mac MC2000, C2200

Still outstanding for HT, classical, jazz, and alboms that don't have a lot high frequencies.

Older rock and roll and anything with a lot of high's though has become really bad, almost painful.

Any ideas to tame the high freq brightness with the SL3?

Caspyr said:

Always loved my ML's for my HT. SL3, Cinema, Script i.

But I have upgraded to a really revealing system for 2 channel. All tubes. Mac MC2000, C2200

Still outstanding for HT, classical, jazz, and alboms that don't have a lot high frequencies.

Older rock and roll and anything with a lot of high's though has become really bad, almost painful.

Any ideas to tame the high freq brightness with the SL3?

Click to expand...

Hola...try to use copper cables than silver. Sometimes, silver is too bright. You can use cables as an equalizer. Trust your ears, and choose the one that you liked most. You have to try several and different models. As example, Hormonic Tech pro-silkway are made from a single copper mono crystal and it is great for bass and tons of detail in the mids. No too bright. Also you could check the speaker's polarity. When you have too much highs, could be a bass canellation, reverse the polarity at one cable and listen again. If you have more bass, then you must search for the right polarity from the amp to the speakers. Reverse the connection, in other words, just change the ends, the connectors that are in the amp, put them at the speakers...sometimes this little things help to solve problems like that one that you have. Happy listening,
Roberto.

Thanks Roberto, but I don;t use silver. Bluejeans IC's, older Audioquest speaker cables that I bought with the speakers 10 years ago.

Tried 4 ohm taps, 8 ohm taps. Going to try using some BJ speaker wire that I have lying around and see what that does, but I don't want to do anything that changes the mids and lows, as they are close to perfect.

Some early rock recordings were recorded really badly. Or perhaps they were recorded for replay on mediocre equipment. Unfortunately, I have a similar problem with some early rock recordings. But the last thing I want to do is modify my system so that these recordings sound okay. The result will be that my superbly recorded CD's which make up the bulk of my collection will now sound mediocre.

There's no easy way around this problem...

I doubt it's your equipment. What you are hearing is the effect of badly recorded source material. Try to see if any of what you listen to is available on more up-to-date remastered cds or lps. I'd not change the system. Well recorded stuff will probably sound great.

Caspyr said:

Thanks Roberto, but I don;t use silver. Bluejeans IC's, older Audioquest speaker cables that I bought with the speakers 10 years ago.

Tried 4 ohm taps, 8 ohm taps. Going to try using some BJ speaker wire that I have lying around and see what that does, but I don't want to do anything that changes the mids and lows, as they are close to perfect.

Click to expand...

Hola...try 8 ohms taps with 1.5 m long interconnets. This will roll off some high frequency energy...the bass must be robust but not exaggerated. Also the size of the instruments must remain as they should. If you have too much bass energy, then some notes will be next to you at your seat, and some at the stage. The low frequency (deep notes) you have to feel them but not hear then next to you. If you are getting this, you have too much energy bass. This is the same thing with mids and highs. When you listen a cymbal, it must be located where the drums are...next to the drummer, not next to you. Try to have one third of the inner side of the stat panel facing you at your seat...(Jim Power flash light technic) to balance the stage. Also, bring your speakers with their feet at the front lower level than their´s back. This will roll of some high energy in your room. Experiment with the speaker´s feet for different altitudes, front to back. Also use some cloth in the wall at the speaker´s back wall, if you can. This will reduce a lot the reflecting energy from the wall. Happy listening,
Roberto.

I'd recommend looking into some room treatments first before swapping any gear.

As I've exchanged with Kruppy in this thread on his SL3's, the 4 to 7Khz brightness of the SL3's can be due to the reflections from the walls behind the speaker.


I'd recommend you first try some high-frequency absorption of the rear wave. Hang a thick velvety blanket on the wall behind the speakers as a test to see if that improves the overly bright highs.

If it does, then follow the advice I give Kruppy in that other thread.

As for older rock recordings, yes, they had issues, in my book, usually insufficient bass, which makes them sound more tilted to the highs.

I actually have several presets in my speaker processors for the extreme situations (for example, EQ’d highs to tame the new Genesis SACD’s, or boosted low’s for older rock discs).

I agree about the poor bass of early recordings. Maybe they were mixed with vinyl in mind and then transferred to CD without taking advantage of CD's potentially greater ability to reporduce low bass. I know you can get great bass with vinyl, but using the full dynamics range of some music can make albums difficult to track.

An upgrade to more revealing equipment can be a blessing and a curse. I'd agree with the recommendation to spend some time reconsidering your speaker locations, toe-in angle, and forward/backward tilt angle. It won't cost you a cent, and you may be able to tame the brightness a bit, effectively 'tuning' your setup to your taste. My own experience with the SL3s says to tilt them forward (into the room) to brighten the sound, or back to darken it a bit. Often the easiest way to hear the difference in tilt angle is to listen with just a single speaker, and have a friend carefully tilt the speaker from the top of the panel while you listen, eventually finding the angle that sounds best.

- Jason

Caspyr said:

Always loved my ML's for my HT. SL3, Cinema, Script i.

But I have upgraded to a really revealing system for 2 channel. All tubes. Mac MC2000, C2200

Still outstanding for HT, classical, jazz, and alboms that don't have a lot high frequencies.

Older rock and roll and anything with a lot of high's though has become really bad, almost painful.

Any ideas to tame the high freq brightness with the SL3?

Click to expand...

Curious - what kind of gear did you move from? I have heard the mac - and I would certainly not quantify it as bright... What kind of source do you have? If the speakers were moved - that of course could do it - (see posts about location etc...). Could just possibly be the new amp is bringing more energy into the room - which - again could be cause of brightness... How old is the mac gear... any burn in issues? I don't know anything about tubes - but I believe they take a longer time to mellow etc.....

Based on your description, the problem is not the speakers but the recordings. I am a professional filmmaker and has a studio that allows me to analyze recordings in any digital formats. I saw a lot of nasty things in pop and rock recordings. The best fix is not to change anything in your system but correct the recordings by using programs like Adobe Audition. I found that the clip recovery (restoring the clipped waves) function and the equalizers are extremely helpful. The 4-7 kHz problem is typical when a studio uses compressor and close mic settings. It is not that this frequency range is boosted but that the dynamic bass has been suppressed. Once the clipped wave is restored, the highs will be tamed.

Of course, you need a good degree of knowledge of acoustics to operate such a program effectively. But that's the fun if you are a true audiophile.

Hi,

what about the source? Analog or digital? Which model?

miljac said:

Hi,

what about the source? Analog or digital? Which model?

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I agree. If your mac components are really that revealing, they could be showing you some weakness in your source component. When I recently auditioned Roger Sanders preamp and amps in my system, I found out first hand that his components were ruthlessly revealing of the source. I thought his preamp was a bit hard and edgy on the high frequencies, but then I substituted my source. I took out my RAM-modified Oppo 970 and put in my Marantz SA11 S1 and the hardness disappeared. Things warmed up and smoothed out noticeably. Prior to this I had not realized the Oppo was so edgy and had been perfectly pleased with it. The better each component in the chain gets, the more it shows the weaknesses in the component that precedes it.

My Mac gear is fairly new, but has enough hours to break in. MC2000, C2200 pre and Teres 340 running through a Manley Steelhead. This all replaced some old Carver SS gear I had for years, but never had the brightness issue.

Tilting the speakers forward is definately NOT the solution.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I'm not an expert, but have read on numerous occasions . . .

Vinyl drops out around 5khz and engineers automatically compensated when mastering LPs for decades prior to the invention of CD. The early CDs - ~1981-1989 - often had that range bumped up resulting in screechy CDs that were almost unbearable. The problem was not in the CD medium, but in the engineering. I'll never forget the pain of a Tears for Fears album. The music was bad enough, but listening to that 5khz boost was painful.

amansker said:

I'm not an expert, but have read on numerous occasions . . .

Vinyl drops out around 5khz and engineers automatically compensated when mastering LPs for decades prior to the invention of CD.

Click to expand...

What do you mean "drops out"? Thanks.

Are you guys talking about the RIAA equalisation curve?

"anything with a lot of high's though has become really bad, almost painful"

The key word is "ANYTHING"....regardless of genre,...? mastering,...? source?,... I'm surprised no one has mentioned rolling the drivers / phase-inverters (12AT7's if memory serves me) in the Mac amp...Mac gear is hi-end, but the stock tubes leave a lot to be desired and you can tame that wild beast of an amp with some premium NOS drivers to balance, soften the hi freq presentation to the ML's...My suggestion would be to swap them out for some NOS Mullard ECC81's...this will have a huge overall effect and be a lot cheaper than rolling cables...