NAS Media Storage/Server

Calling all Techies:

First pardon my ignorance, I do not have much computer/server knowledge, but I'm trying to learn.

I've just started researching NAS devices for media storage. The plan is to eventually start ripping my cds with some lossless format in addition to storing our bazillion family photos. My wife is also attempting to start up a home based photography business, where this will be an essential piece of equipment.

I've really only looked at two (I believe both RAID 5):

Buffalo Terastation: 1 Terabyte (4x250G) storage running as low as $599
Readynas NV+: 1 Terabyte (4x250G) storage at $1199

What other options are out there? Are there any pitfalls to avoid with streaming media and NAS devices?

The Readynas is a bit pricey for me, however, I've read some bad reviews on the Terastation.

Are there other options in the lower price range?

I know SleepySurf has been using a 300G Buffalo Linkstation in conjunction with his Squeezbox (from searching the website). Anyone else? Any issues Sleepy? 300G is not enough space for my future needs, but I'm more concerned with Buffalo's support, quality and reliability.

Any additional information that increases my knowledge base is appreciated.

Kruppy -- I did the same search you did 7-8 months ago, and I decided on the ReadyNAS NV+. I've really had no problem with the decision, although I agree that your price seems a little high. I got a 'diskless' NV+ for about $550, and then picked up four 320GB drives at about $90, for a total price of a little over $900. (Netgear has purchased Infrant since then, however, so their pricing may have changed.) I was able to install all of the disks and get the system up, running, and configured in about half an hour.

By the way, be sure you're aware that essentially one of the disks will be used for data correction information, so four 250GB drives is not a terabyte of storage, but 750GB instead.

Do some searches on the forum. I am pretty sure Lugano has made some good suggestions on this topic in the past. My only advice is to wait as long as you can -- hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper every day.

Kruppy,
Are you looking for just a box for storage, or something that can act as a server? Some NAS's have an operating system, usually a linux based OS, and some do not. I have been looking for a NAS also, and I have decided on the Qnap brand for when I am finally able to afford it. Check out the following two and see what you think:

Qnap TS-109 (1 HDD bay, expandable up to 2 TB)
http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=78

Qnap TS-209 (2 HDD bays, expandable up to 2 TB USB)
http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=83

I found them at Newegg for a decent price, but I'm sure you can check pricegrabber for prices.

I have seen a lot of very good reviews on these, and they really seem to be one of the best out there. As a decent alternative, check the Thecus brand, as those are also highly rated from what I have found.

http://www.thecus.com/products_index.php?PHPSESSID=9a65c251d04036fdecf20650bb25daac

-capT

kcl said:

I got a 'diskless' NV+ for about $550, and then picked up four 320GB drives at about $90, for a total price of a little over $900.

By the way, be sure you're aware that essentially one of the disks will be used for data correction information, so four 250GB drives is not a terabyte of storage, but 750GB instead.

Click to expand...

I like this idea, that way I can upgrade drives as required or when my credit card isn't smoking. Still a little pricey for me, though.

Yeah, I realize that a chunk of disk space not useable and is required for the RAID set up.

Rich said:

Do some searches on the forum. I am pretty sure Lugano has made some good suggestions on this topic in the past. My only advice is to wait as long as you can -- hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper every day.

Click to expand...

I did seach the forum, although I didn't go though every thread that came up, don't recall Lugano's posts. I'll do another search.

My wife says the same thing, wait something better will be out next month and the month after that, and the month after......As with everything, I have a hard time waiting.

captain_tinker said:

Kruppy,
Are you looking for just a box for storage, or something that can act as a server? Some NAS's have an operating system, usually a linux based OS, and some do not. I have been looking for a NAS also, and I have decided on the Qnap brand for when I am finally able to afford it. Check out the following two and see what you think:

-capT

Click to expand...

Good question. Here's where my lack of knowledge fails me. I know I would like some sort of RAID set up, so that data is not lost, as this will be used for both personal music files and my wifes business photographs. I'm assuming that a RAID set up requires some sort of OS. I need to research some more.

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

My older BuffaloTech Linkstation is still going strong. I had *ONE* instance where it wouldn't boot up, but BuffaloTech Support was SUPERB... spending over 1 hr on phone with me even though the warranty had run out. With today's plummeting prices, I'd definitely recommend a terabyte server solution with redundant RAID configuration. The ReadyNAS pricing seems a little high. One other consideration... *IF* you plan on using a Squeezebox or Transporter, you might want to get one of the NAS versions that comes pre-installed with SlimServer (their upcoming next version to be called SqueezeCenter). Otherwise, get whatever looks good to you.

Kruppy said:

Good question. Here's where my lack of knowledge fails me. I know I would like some sort of RAID set up, so that data is not lost, as this will be used for both personal music files and my wifes business photographs. I'm assuming that a RAID set up requires some sort of OS. I need to research some more.

Click to expand...

I don't have time right now, but later today (probably this evening) I'll outline the particulars of what I liked (and still do!) about the ReadyNAS. Briefly, off the top of my head, the unit has its own OS in firmware, uses RAID 5, doesn't use a monitor (you use a browser), has hot-swap drives, incremental addition of drives, incremental increase in drive sizes, supports a UPS, and auto email notification of events. Details later...

kcl said:

I don't have time right now, but later today (probably this evening) I'll outline the particulars of what I liked (and still do!) about the ReadyNAS. Briefly, off the top of my head, the unit has its own OS in firmware, uses RAID 5, doesn't use a monitor (you use a browser), has hot-swap drives, incremental addition of drives, incremental increase in drive sizes, supports a UPS, and auto email notification of events. Details later...

Click to expand...

Looking forward to it.

sleepysurf said:

One other consideration... *IF* you plan on using a Squeezebox or Transporter, you might want to get one of the NAS versions that comes pre-installed with SlimServer (their upcoming next version to be called SqueezeCenter).

Click to expand...

Yes, my intention is to use a Squeezebox.

Kruppy said:

Yes, my intention is to use a Squeezebox.

Click to expand...

Kruppy,
Sleepy is right, if you are going to use it for SlimServer, and IF you are planning to use the NAS as the server itself and not the computer, then you need one with an OS and one that supports having Slimserver installed on it. There are several NAS's that can come with it already installed and some that can have it installed later. Some are easier than others. I would suggest check out the forum at slimdevices.com, there is an entire section devoted to NAS's that work with Slimserver (3rd Party Hardware).

http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18

You may get some good ideas there too. That is why I decided on the Qnap, it seems to be one of the easiest ones to configure to use slimserver. The Buffalo linkstation and the readynas I've heard are a bit trickier, but do work, and are slower in general than the Qnap. You will likely need to learn a little bit of linux to get most of them set up, but there are several posts that have very good instructions on what commands to run, so there should be no problem there.

There are several NAS's out there that would do the job, so check that out as part of your research. Good Luck, and let us know what you eventually decide.

-capT

Data Storage Robot....hmmm

Has anyone seen this before? I haven't looked very closely at it yet.

http://www.drobo.com/

captain_tinker said:

Kruppy,
Sleepy is right, if you are going to use it for SlimServer, and IF you are planning to use the NAS as the server itself and not the computer, then you need one with an OS and one that supports having Slimserver installed on it. There are several NAS's that can come with it already installed and some that can have it installed later. Some are easier than others. I would suggest check out the forum at slimdevices.com, there is an entire section devoted to NAS's that work with Slimserver (3rd Party Hardware).

http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18

You may get some good ideas there too. That is why I decided on the Qnap, it seems to be one of the easiest ones to configure to use slimserver. The Buffalo linkstation and the readynas I've heard are a bit trickier, but do work, and are slower in general than the Qnap. You will likely need to learn a little bit of linux to get most of them set up, but there are several posts that have very good instructions on what commands to run, so there should be no problem there.

There are several NAS's out there that would do the job, so check that out as part of your research. Good Luck, and let us know what you eventually decide.

-capT

Click to expand...

Thanks. I've been meaning to get over to the slimdevices forum, just haven't had the time.

Ok, in no particular order, here are various rambling thoughts on the ReadyNAS NV+ media server:

• I was able to get the box 'diskless', allowing me to get inexpensive disks off of the net and add them manually. I don't know if you can still do this (I couldn't find one with a quick google, but you might still be able to), but I was able to put the system together for about 25% less that if I'd bought it complete.
• The OS is in firmware and installs when you boot up.
• SlimServer is part of the installed OS and is automatically available.
• Because you're running SlimServer, there is server support for Music, Video, and Pictures.
• The OS is linux and is extremely stable. From the server's logs, with the exception of 2 reboots in March and April for software updates, my system has been up 24/7 since I installed it on 2/24/07.
• Even though the OS is linux, you never have to do any 'unix' things with it. In particular, its filesystem is directly accessible by a Windows system on your network. (When I rip a CD, I do it on my XP system and then copy the resulting files via explorer to the server.)
• Physically, the server itself is surprisingly small. Its only 5 1/2 inches wide, 8 1/2 inches tall, and 9 inches long.
• The system is relatively quiet. Although not silent, I've owned many other computers that were noisier.
• The system runs pretty cool. Its not stone cold, but it certainly doesn't throw out as much heat as I was afraid it might.
• All of the drives are SATA, hot-swap, and installed from the front (which is really convenient). I only took me about 2-3 minutes to install each drive into its supplied enclosure and insert it into the server.
• The server is only accessed remotely. From your Windows, Mac, or Unix/Linux system you run a supplied program called (and I kid you not) 'RAIDar', and it finds all of your servers (generally just the one). You can then click on 'Browse' and get an explorer window of the server's files, or 'Setup' and get a administrator window in your browser (complete with login). All of the management of the server is via this admin window.
• They use a file system called X-RAID, which supports 'standard' RAID 0, 1 and 5, but with nifty 'expansion' capabilities. (See below.)
• With X-RAID, you can start with as little as 1 drive, and incrementally add up to 4 drives. With one drive, you get a non-RAID system. With the second drive, you tell it to convert to either RAID 1 (2 drives mirrored) or a 2-drive RAID 5 (one drive for error correction, one for data). Adding the third and fourth drives converts to or expands the existing RAID 5 array. (This all occurs in the background with access to existing data allowed.)
• Another really neat thing about X-RAID is that, in a limited manner, it automatically increase the size of the RAID 5 array as you add larger drives. I say limited only because a RAID 5 array can only be a multiple of its smallest drive. So you can add larger drives, but until the minimum size of all of the drives increases, the size of the array won't change. Its still pretty cool, though, that when you add that last larger drive, the array is automatically converted to the larger size. (I started with 4 320GB drives, but have added 2 500GB drives I got on 'super deal' sales. When I add the 4th 500+GB drive, my array will automatically increase from 960GB to 1.5TB. Pretty neat!)
• Almost all UPS's that have a USB connection are supported such that they log a significant event whenever you switch to or from UPS power.
• Speaking of which, while the server writes all significant events into a log, you can specify that up to four email accounts also get notifications. I've got both my office and home email configured, so I get email notifications at both places when something happens.

That's all I can think of at the moment. I hope that this has helped.

Kruppy said:

Has anyone seen this before? I haven't looked very closely at it yet.

http://www.drobo.com/

Click to expand...

Huh... intriguing actually. It's USB though, so you would need to have it attached to a computer, it doesn't look like slimserver will run on it. If that is ok with you, then that should serve you very well. I had a hard time getting any real specifics on the actual inner workings, as it claims not to use any RAID, or any derivative of it either. Rather it claims that it uses virtualization. How that happens, I haven't a clue, and whenever I see pure marketing without any good explanation, I tend to get really suspicious. But it sure sounds like a good deal at $499.99 at Newegg for 4 HDD slots.

Also after reading kcl's info about the readynas, that sounds awesome! I like that X-RAID idea. It sounds like it is well thought out and quite effective. I may just have to check that out myself. I found a diskless version of it on Newegg if you are interested:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822122010

-capT

kcl said:

Ok, in no particular order, here are various rambling thoughts on the ReadyNAS NV+ media server:

• I was able to get the box 'diskless', allowing me to get inexpensive disks off of the net and add them manually. I don't know if you can still do this (I couldn't find one with a quick google, but you might still be able to), but I was able to put the system together for about 25% less that if I'd bought it complete.
• The OS is in firmware and installs when you boot up.
• SlimServer is part of the installed OS and is automatically available.
• Because you're running SlimServer, there is server support for Music, Video, and Pictures.
• The OS is linux and is extremely stable. From the server's logs, with the exception of 2 reboots in March and April for software updates, my system has been up 24/7 since I installed it on 2/24/07.
• Even though the OS is linux, you never have to do any 'unix' things with it. In particular, its filesystem is directly accessible by a Windows system on your network. (When I rip a CD, I do it on my XP system and then copy the resulting files via explorer to the server.)
• Physically, the server itself is surprisingly small. Its only 5 1/2 inches wide, 8 1/2 inches tall, and 9 inches long.
• The system is relatively quiet. Although not silent, I've owned many other computers that were noisier.
• The system runs pretty cool. Its not stone cold, but it certainly doesn't throw out as much heat as I was afraid it might.
• All of the drives are SATA, hot-swap, and installed from the front (which is really convenient). I only took me about 2-3 minutes to install each drive into its supplied enclosure and insert it into the server.
• The server is only accessed remotely. From your Windows, Mac, or Unix/Linux system you run a supplied program called (and I kid you not) 'RAIDar', and it finds all of your servers (generally just the one). You can then click on 'Browse' and get an explorer window of the server's files, or 'Setup' and get a administrator window in your browser (complete with login). All of the management of the server is via this admin window.
• They use a file system called X-RAID, which supports 'standard' RAID 0, 1 and 5, but with nifty 'expansion' capabilities. (See below.)
• With X-RAID, you can start with as little as 1 drive, and incrementally add up to 4 drives. With one drive, you get a non-RAID system. With the second drive, you tell it to convert to either RAID 1 (2 drives mirrored) or a 2-drive RAID 5 (one drive for error correction, one for data). Adding the third and fourth drives converts to or expands the existing RAID 5 array. (This all occurs in the background with access to existing data allowed.)
• Another really neat thing about X-RAID is that, in a limited manner, it automatically increase the size of the RAID 5 array as you add larger drives. I say limited only because a RAID 5 array can only be a multiple of its smallest drive. So you can add larger drives, but until the minimum size of all of the drives increases, the size of the array won't change. Its still pretty cool, though, that when you add that last larger drive, the array is automatically converted to the larger size. (I started with 4 320GB drives, but have added 2 500GB drives I got on 'super deal' sales. When I add the 4th 500+GB drive, my array will automatically increase from 960GB to 1.5TB. Pretty neat!)
• Almost all UPS's that have a USB connection are supported such that they log a significant event whenever you switch to or from UPS power.
• Speaking of which, while the server writes all significant events into a log, you can specify that up to four email accounts also get notifications. I've got both my office and home email configured, so I get email notifications at both places when something happens.

That's all I can think of at the moment. I hope that this has helped.

Click to expand...

Ok, you've sold me on the Readynas nv+. This is, as far as I can tell, everything I want/need.

I read somewhere that it's limited to 2 terabytes due to the firmware. Any idea if there's an update? I haven't poked around enough to find out yet.

Santa if your watching, I want a Descent and a Readynas nv+ with at least 1 terabyte of disk space (or a big wad of cash so I can buy them myself).

Kruppy said:

I read somewhere that it's limited to 2 terabytes due to the firmware. Any idea if there's an update? I haven't poked around enough to find out yet.

Click to expand...

Yes, the total size is currently limited to 2TB. Thus, if you have 4 750GB drives 250GB would not be used (3x750 data drives = 2250GB). Probably by the time 750+GB drives become cheap enough to use (my guess would be mid-2008), there'll be a firmware update. In the meantime, 2TB is still a heck of lot of storage!

Kruppy and KCL,
I don't know if this would be what you are looking for, but I saw a 3 tb ReadyNas on newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822329032R

$1,929.88

:think: Something to think about anyway...

-capT

captain_tinker said:

Kruppy and KCL,
I don't know if this would be what you are looking for, but I saw a 3 tb ReadyNas on newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822329032R

$1,929.88

:think: Something to think about anyway...

-capT

Click to expand...

Whoops, must have missed that when I was parusing the site. Wow, that's a chunk of cash. I think it was one of the reviews on Newegg that stated the 2TB limit. Must have been an older review.

My only point is that if I end up spending this kind of cash now, I'd like it to be able to be upgradeable/support larger HDD. The last thing I want to do is spend $1k on something that within the next year or two can't handle my space requirements (although 1TB is a lot of space). Just thinking of the future.