Snubbed by the Elite Reviewers - Again

I was in Barnes and Noble a couple of days ago, and was browsing Stereophile and Absolute Sound mags. Both have their reviewers choices published this month. Guess what? No Logans in Stereophile. Only Vistas mentioned in Absolute Sound.

My Ascents have a better midrange than the 28K Wilsons, and these guys don't even mention the Vantages! What's going on?

I don't believe that Stereophile has reviewed any of the newer generation Logans. However, Musical Fidelity seems to make it every other month and at least they like Ayre. Does anyone know how manufacturers get their products to be reviewed by these guys? Is this just a relationship thing? Are there possible kick backs going? Are the reviewers just clueless?

David,

Yeah... they haven't reviewed the new Logans, hence it's not in their recommended components. No matter though, I know my speakers are great.

I don't need their approval.

Though I know there was a German magazine that also had a similar Class system as Stereophile but with numbers.

To put in perspective, the Cremona was 86 and the Prodigy was 92. The Alexandria X2 was like a 98 though and the BW802D was 91.

Joey

I absolutely agree with Joey. I couldn't care less if they're not in Absolute Sound or Stereophile magazine; I know that, for me, my Summits are everything I could want.

Not true! The latest edition of TAS lists the Summit as an editor's choice!

S'Phile reviewed a lower-level Logan some months ago (might have been Aeons) and gave them a lukewarm review. Ever since, ML (allegedly) will not send speakers for them to review. Who cares? TAS has always had good words to say about the brand. I would, howver, like to hear HP's take on Summits. He reviews less and less of the established brands!

aliveatfive said:

S'Phile reviewed a lower-level Logan some months ago (might have been Aeons) and gave them a lukewarm review. Ever since, ML (allegedly) will not send speakers for them to review. Who cares? TAS has always had good words to say about the brand. I would, howver, like to hear HP's take on Summits. He reviews less and less of the established brands!

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I doubt ML will not send speakers for review, there's nothing to hide with the upper ESL speakers.... this is where ML gets up and running.

IMO.

tonyc said:

Not true! The latest edition of TAS lists the Summit as an editor's choice!

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Really??

Cool... and I have that issue with me right now, but haven't perused it yet...

Sweetness... I'm gonna read what they said about it.

Definitely don't need approval, but I also like to know that I'm not the only one who likes these speakers.

Where were the Vantages in either of these magazines
Jim

Joey_V said:

David,

Though I know there was a German magazine that also had a similar Class system as Stereophile but with numbers.

To put in perspective, the Cremona was 86 and the Prodigy was 92. The Alexandria X2 was like a 98 though and the BW802D was 91.

Joey

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Here is the class system Joey is talking about, taken from the june 2007 number of the german Stereo magazine.

I've highlighted the summits and the vantages. The number of stars indicates the value per price, in their opinion. The figure at the left of the stars is the price per pair, in euros. The one at the right of the stars is the rating, in % relative to their top-rated speakers, which are Lumen White White Light and Wilson Watt/Puppy 8.

lugano said:

Here is the class system Joey is talking about, taken from the june 2007 number of the german Stereo magazine.

I've highlighted the summits and the vantages. The number of stars indicates the value per price, in their opinion. The figure at the left of the stars is the price per pair, in euros. The one at the right of the stars is the rating, in % relative to their top-rated speakers, which are Lumen White White Light and Wilson Watt/Puppy 8.

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Lugano.... awesome! I read an older one from way back!

Anyone who needs their fill of speaker accolades for ML speakers, take a look at where we stand in the grand scheme of things.

Summits - 96%.... saaawweeet! Not to mention it got 4*stars* for what I assume is "value"! Not bad!

Stereophile aint got nothing on ML.

Joey

Joey_V said:

Lugano.... awesome! I read an older one from way back!

Anyone who needs their fill of speaker accolades for ML speakers, take a look at where we stand in the grand scheme of things.

Summits - 96%.... saaawweeet! Not to mention it got 4*stars* for what I assume is "value"! Not bad!

Stereophile aint got nothing on ML.

Joey

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Joey, I've got the latest Stereo magazine in the office, but I think that the rankings are more or less the same from june to october. They only include the speakers they tested, not all the speakers around, of course. Indeed, the stars are "value".

I was at the biggest italian hifi and highend show lately (topaudio Milano).

I must say that in the 50k $ league the Germans rule. The MBL 101E and the German Physiks (*) I've listened to are totally fantastic. They outperform anything... maybe ML should think about a 360 degree, cylindrical panel... the MBL's trounce eveything I've ever listened to, by a huge margin. But at 81 dB they need TONS of watts....


(*) http://www.german-physiks.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=33

Well, I sure like my Summits! They are my reference speakers and with a Descent on the way, I'm pretty sure that they will stay my reference for a long time.

Unless that new CLZ (CLX?) ends up just being that much better....

Granted there are still a few limitations that the Summits have (as does ANY speaker, no matter what the cost) but for me, the combination they offer in my room with my gear is the most enjoyable music experience I have EVER had.

You can expect a very glowing review on the Summits in the Dec issue of TONE Audio. I couldn't be happier with these speakers!!

Audiophile Publication Lists and M-L Speakers

As a reviewer for a limited circulation and now defunct high end audio magazine, I can state with confidence that the business of ranking components is complicated and not without controversy. There is a "beauty contest" element in "best of " lists and, of course, they will typically reflect only those components or systems that have been actually reviewed. The reviewing pipeline is a whole other story.
Many of the components in my system have been in "best of" lists but not all. I have never worried about that if the sound is great. I have a Martin Logan Summit-Stage-Descent(i)-Descent-Script(i) system which alternates between 2.1 and 5.1 channels. That these speakers are not on any "best of" list at the moment. So what? I get great sound in all listening modes.

lugano said:

Here is the class system Joey is talking about, taken from the june 2007 number of the german Stereo magazine.

I've highlighted the summits and the vantages. The number of stars indicates the value per price, in their opinion. The figure at the left of the stars is the price per pair, in euros. The one at the right of the stars is the rating, in % relative to their top-rated speakers, which are Lumen White White Light and Wilson Watt/Puppy 8.

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Thank you for posting this. Although, ultimately subjective, I don't understand why the 2 big American magazines don't present a more complete picture as this German magazine does.

I certainly don't get my self worth every morning from reading TAS or Stereophile, and I don't plan to move to another speaker because they have not reviewed it. However, I would like to see some more fairness in their coverage. I love Ayre, but is having 3 products reviewed in one year vs. none for Logans present a realistic picture of excellence to audiophiles?

By the way, can someone please translate the German comments about the Logans? Thanks

David Matz said:

Thank you for posting this. Although, ultimately subjective, I don't understand why the 2 big American magazines don't present a more complete picture as this German magazine does.

I certainly don't get my self worth every morning from reading TAS or Stereophile, and I don't plan to move to another speaker because they have not reviewed it. However, I would like to see some more fairness in their coverage. I love Ayre, but is having 3 products reviewed in one year vs. none for Logans present a realistic picture of excellence to audiophiles?

By the way, can someone please translate the German comments about the Logans? Thanks

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TAS HAS reviewed the Summit. AS a matter of fact, it was quite a while ago. I think we depend on the printed word more than on our ears. Why do we have to have our own opinions validated? To continue the rant, S'phile removes equipment from their recommended lists that they "have not heard in a while." Does this make one's purchase of such equipment a fool's errand?

David Matz said:

...
By the way, can someone please translate the German comments about the Logans? Thanks

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Summits: partly active hybrid elecrostat with outstanding cohesion, resolution, and imaging

Vantages: extremely resolving, airy, and lively hybrid elecrostat with a dynamic, meaty bass

aliveatfive said:

TAS HAS reviewed the Summit. AS a matter of fact, it was quite a while ago. I think we depend on the printed word more than on our ears. Why do we have to have our own opinions validated? To continue the rant, S'phile removes equipment from their recommended lists that they "have not heard in a while." Does this make one's purchase of such equipment a fool's errand?

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That's the whole point about why the Vantages are not listed in either mag. Actually, the only review I've seen of the Vantages came from a British mag. I get the impression that ML sent review samples of the Summits and Vistas but not Vantages. At any rate, I don't expect a mag to list a product among the best if it hasn't reviewed the product. That would diminish the mag's credability with me.

Hmmmm....... Let's see Vantage 88%, Summit 96%. That's an 8 percent improvement for only double the price..... ;-) Sorry Joey, I couldn't resist!

David Prall said:

Hmmmm....... Let's see Vantage 88%, Summit 96%. That's an 8 percent improvement for only double the price..... ;-) Sorry Joey, I couldn't resist!

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I say let's all get WWP8 and score 100%... uber perfection! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

No offense to the Vantage owners, but having had both I'd call it a bigger diff than 8%.

However it does depend on your room and associated electronics.

With great source components and enough room, the Summit does posess a lot more dynamic punch and weight. Overall a much bigger sound.

But in a smaller room, the Vantage is tough to beat.

Overall, they are both fantastic speakers though!! I could live happily ever
after with either....