Help: Need to Put Together Vantage-Based System Quickly

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Val756

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My lady and I just purchased a pair of Vantages on Sat (to be delivered on the 18th) ; With 3000 dollars to spend for an amp, preamp and cd, what are your recommendations for doing so thru the used market?

I'm already leaning towards a Sunfire as I heard such powering Odyesseys a couple of years ago, so the real issue here is what preamp and cd to go after.

By the way: the lady insists that the cd be a changer as she loves the music but not at all inclined to jump and down to change out cds when listening.

(thinking of the Rotel RCC1055 there)

Your thoughtful suggestions would be most appreciated.

-V :music:​
 
If you have a laptop (or your computer is in you rlistening room), I'd suggest not getting a CD player at all. Instead, get a Benchmark DAC (which can often be had used for under $700) and an Apple AirPort Extreme.

Load iTunes onto your laptop (it's a free download), then proceed to load all your CDs (using Apple Lossless compression, of course) onto your laptop. You can stream your music wirelessly through the AirPort to the DAC in it's pure digital form, so you don't have to worry about the crappy D/A converters in your computer getting in the way of the music. Eventually, if you do a few CDs every evening, you'll have the whole collection in your computer, and you can use iTunes to put together play lists, or play single discs or just individual songs or whatever. It is a FANTASTIC piece of software if you're looking for an easy-to-learn and use program for managing your digital music collecion. This solution also has a VERY high WAF, because she can put iTunes on her computer too (if she has her own laptop or PC) and can stream her own music when you aren't streaming yours.

If you decide later to get a dedicated CD transport or player, you can hook it up to the DAC as well--the DAC1 has a myriad of inputs. As you know I'm a BIG fan of the Oppo DVD multi-players because they will play ANTHING on a silver disc, have 7.1 outputs, play DVDs and music CDs, and make respectable transports for an external DAC, and they do all this for right around $200!

I think you're on the right track with a Sunfire amp. They sound super-sweet with Martin Logans, and have pretty much limitless power in watts and current.

As far as a preamp goes, the Sunfire pre's are very nice, but can be pricey if you buy them new. ARC makes some REALLY sweet pre's but you'd be hard-pressed to touch one new for your wntire budget. Used they can be had for a steal sometimes, and some models are better than others. The LS-9 is a nice little 2-channel pre, with sweet sound, balanced ins and outs, and remote control, and can be had (if you can find them) for under $1500 used. The LS-10 is a really versatile preand frequently is found on Audiogon, but costs a little more used.

If you really want to have this rig up and running double quick, you'r eprobably not going to have the luxury of shopping around though, so you migh tlook at some of the Arcam pre's, or the Cambridge Audio stuff, or even the Krell AV line (most are integrated amps but make GREAT pre's too). You can get these products at most Tweeters, or online for a decent price. The Arcam gear is particularly sweet-sounding with Martin Logans, but it's a little bright. Pairing an Arcam pre with a Sunfire amp would probably sound VERY nice.

I hope this helps.

--Richard
 
The iTunes Solutions Sounds Great, Dreamer; Thanks!

What you suggested will definitely be used in the system I'm putting together here.:bowdown:

While still hunting down a preowned Sunfire (with a particular interest in finding one of Bob Carver's Signature versions), I came upon a YBA YA201 integrated amp at a very reasonable price.

I'm reading some good things about this unit in regards to it's sound quality and it's very appearance has already gotten the lady of the house's "thumbs up".

While at only 100 wpc , it certainly can't run with even a basic Sunfire amp, but does anyone on the forum have any experience with using a YBA to power the Vantage (or it's earlier kin)?

-V :music:​
 
V -
Congrats on the Vantage purchase, enjoy!
I will be saving portions of Richard's recommendations in my tool box of ideas for later changes.

Lee
 
Thanks For The Words of Encouragement, Lee

I've lusted for a set of Martin Logans every since I first heard the Sequel when it was first released, Lee.

Til that time, the only loudspeakers I had heard that gave Me that sense of being audience to an actual performance were the Magnapan MGll's I had a few years before.

(funny how,even then, Bob Carver has been apart of my audio upbringing; the Maggies were powered by a Phase Linear amp of his design)

I really liked what I saw of your own Vantage-based system, Lee: it's a pleasure (and more than abit reassuring) to see quality setups that folks other than ultra-wealthy have created for themselves.

The system I'm putting together is the genesis of a purely music setup; the den is the home theater/casual listening area.

As such, I know I'll eventually upgrade components and let system & myself grow into the Vantages.

For now, I want to be as cost-effective as possible while not terribly shortchanging what the speakers are capable of producing.

Maybe coming up with a solution for World Peace and Pollution would be easier.

-Val

 
I have a sunfire symphoic reference and you should be able to find a used Sunfire amp on the 'Gon every now and again for around $1000.

You have a number of choices with pre-amps: tubes and solid state alike. As Dreamer said, Audio Research makes some fantastic stuff, but even the used gear isn't cheap. If you can 'steal' one for under $12-$1300, that's a pretty good bargain. I'd also look at Rogue, Rotel (solid state), or maybe an older Conrad Johnson tube pre-amp. I have listened to both the NAD and Rotel SS pre-amps, and really liked them. They won't break the bank either, even if you buy new. I know a few members of this forum have some Cary gear, and you can find used Cary stuff for about the same price as a used AR. Again, tons of options...

I haven't heard too many reports/reviews about good multidisc players (do a search), but one idea is to go ahead and get a half-way decent one from a big box store (best buy or something). Maybe you could find a good one for <$500 and spend the rest of the budget on the amp + pre-amp. In fact, you should be able to find an AR pre-amp for less than $1500, and a used sunfire for around a $1000. The bigger, multichannel, sunfire amps are more expensive (typically over 2k).

Down the line you could get a better DAC to make the CD player sound better, or even add another, better/audiophile-grade, to along with the multidisc player.
 
While still hunting down a preowned Sunfire (with a particular interest in finding one of Bob Carver's Signature versions), I came upon a YBA YA201 integrated amp at a very reasonable price.

I believe that a member of this forum has some Sunfire gear (a Pre and power amp) for sale in the "Classifieds" section. You migh twant to check with him--price is a LOT lower than buying new, and if this person lives close to you, you might even be able to arrange an audition...

--Richard
 
I'll Check Out The Classifieds Now, Richard

Much Appreciated!

-Val :music:
 
Don't rush into a decision just because your speakers will be here soon. Take your time and wait for the right used gear to show up on the 'Gon. After all, you're still talking about spending a couple grand $$. You want to be happy with the purchase!

In a pinch, you can use a moderately powered receiver (if you already own one) at low volumes to at least get some use from your Vantages.

Enjoy!
 
Used Plinius 9200 integrated

Val,

There's one of these on Audiogon as we speak. Current list / $4,400. Asking $2,400 and it includes a phono stage. 200 W / channel and built like the preverbial you know what. This unit is also listed in the TAS Editors Choice / October 2007 issue. A no brainer IMHO.

Regarding CD players, the Rega Apollo ($995) or the Cambridge Audio Azur 840C ($1,499) immediately come to mind.

Several Plinius amp owners on this site and for good reason. Also, with the integrated, one less box and interconnect.

Good luck.

GG
 
Don't rush!

Val,
First, congrats on the new Vantage purchase. The Vantages are excellent speakers and deserve good quality amplification to shine. They already have the bass covered with the internal bass amplifier so they do not need gobs of power to make sound. On the contrary, they need good, pure signal in order to make music! Along this line, you'll need to treat the Vantage like an investment and take your time to pick out the complementing upstream components which will match with your preference(s). The last thing you'd want to do is to rush into getting components just to get sound out of the Vantages.

On the topic of YBA and Sunfire, I'd venture to say that the YBA has a much more refined sound characteristic than the Sunfire. It's just the hallmark sound of the YBA that I remember. Yeah, the Sunfire will give the impression of being effortless, given that it has gobs of power, but I feel it lacks the refinement and musicality of the YBA. I'd pick the YBA over the Sunfire anytime, but I'm approaching from the pure audio perspective and not from the home-theater front.

That said, I think you can do MUCH better than YBA or Sunfire on the used A'gon market. For example, there's the Pass Aleph 3 on A'gon for $1100. This is an amazing amplifier if you can get pass the 30wpc label! I put together a friend's system and the Pass Aleph 3 blew off the Classe' DR9 driving inefficient B&W 805s! That's how good it is.
If you'd feel better with more power, there's a classic Rowland Model 5 on A'gon for $1400 (150wpc) and BAT vk200 for less than $1000, or even a Cary CAD-308 for $1200. And I have not mentioned the likes of Plinius (already mentioned here), Threshold, Pass, Krell, Audio Research, etc...

On the pre-amplifier, while looking at the BAT vk200 on A'gon, I also noticed a BAT vk3i for around $1000 which is a great match to the vk200 if you decide to go that way.

Regarding the digital source component, unless you're really hung up on the pure transport vs computer audio battle, I'd get the SqueezeBox from Slim Devices and a decent DAC like a BenchMark DAC1. Sure, you'd have to take a little time to rip your CDs onto your computer, but once you've done that, you'll have all your music at your fingertips literally!

Good luck.
Spike
 
An Update & A "Thank you"

First off; I want to express my gratitude to you all for your encouragement and suggestions :)

Each letter has been extremely valuable in helping me to figure out the best course of action regarding the system I'm putting together for my girlfriend & myself.

Here's where we stand currently:

The Vantages are currently being run by an Anthem TLP-1 preamp (bought thru AudiogoN )and the front channels of the Harman-Kardon AVR7000 (100 wpc) receiver I took out of my own home theater setup.

Tho the surround processor section of the receiver had gone south, the amps are fine.

As H/K receivers are known for being fairly high-current units,this will allow the speakers to get their 90 hour break-in as I look around for a suitable dedicated amp.

Since $800 is the ceiling for how much we're willing to spend for an amp ( with the option of upgrading after tax-time next year ), most of the recommendations sent my way were thought-provoking, but quite abit out of our current price-range.

With that in-mind...

...and the added parameter that it had to appeal to her aesthetically ("I don't want one of those Huge,Black, Ugly Boxes in the living room", she says)...

...I was initially leaning towards a used Sunfire stereo amp.

I'm keeping an eye open for an early McCormack unit on the used-gear market: I recall hearing a pair of Quests run by an amp from this Virginia-based company a few years back & was very impressed by the sound.

Another amp to consider is the Nelson Pass-designed Adcom GFA-555 that can be had within the price-range I'm working with;

(Getting this will take me back to the "Huge, Black, Ugly Box-Argument", I know, but the cost-savings may be worth it.)

I'm really interested in auditioning the Emotiva RPA-1 with the system.

Besides the Sunfire, this is the only other amp my girl likes in regards to looks.

( The SAF in all it's glory, donchaknow?) :)

I've read nothing but glowing reports on the overall quality and sound of this amplifier here online and elsewhere.

A 30 home audition, a 200 dual-mono design & it's price is an uncanny $699 (currently on-sale at their site for a hundred dollars less than this) makes this amp very tempting ,indeed.

In talking to the tech at their site, I was assured that the amp can easily handle a 2ohm load.

As far as the source; I will get the Squeezebox and put it with a MHDT DAC.

(Just about finished importing both of our cd collections into lossless files for use with iTunes onto a rarely -used computer upstairs)

Due to her work, she's long had wi-fi in the house, so that's already taken care of.

What I would like to find is a used DAC that will take two inputs and switch between them via without much fuss;

(perhaps via remote control or, like my Quadscan Video Processor for the home theater, by making the switch based on whichever source is active at the time )

one from the output of the Squeezebox & the other from the 5-disc cd changer that will tbe in the system for those times when guests come over with music of their own .

The lady likes the Harmony 1000 remote ( "it's pretty") & and my own experience with their lower end models have certainly been positive.

I've been looking into the various interconnects and speaker wire that provides good bang-for-the-buck and will compliment the overall sound of the system.


I see that I have to figure out how to tame the boominess of the bass in some parts of the room with cost-effective (and decor-friendly) sound-treatments, as well.

[your suggestions/input will be most helpful, folks]

Even so, the Vantages have returned us both to the pleasures of simply darkening a room and just LISTENING to the music.

An experience that will only deepen as the system matures.

As before; I look forward to reading your comments.

-Val :music:
 
Pleased to meet you , jfm :)

While I've certainly taken to-heart the suggestion from Brian's ( and others) to "enjoy the ride & take my time", there is a time frame I'm working with.

We want a basic setup running by Christmas and the many guests who are bound to visit here.

Other than that, I look forward to building upon and improving a sound system around the Vantages.

-Val :music:
 
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Val, If you want a new Benchmark DAC-1 USB, pm me....

Im not keeping mine (Swapping my Meridian 808 to an 808i, so I don't
need a DAC for my computer setup..) and it takes optical, balanced, coax/RCA and USB straight from your laptop or computer.

I'll give you a great deal if you want it!

Good luck on the system!
 
Classe' DR9 for $850 on A'gon

This classic Classe' is quite a sweet amp for the Vantage. You don't see these DR9 going on sale too often...
A'gon Classe' DR9 ad

Good luck

Spike
 
First off; I want to express my gratitude to you all for your encouragement and suggestions :)

Each letter has been extremely valuable in helping me to figure out the best course of action regarding the system I'm putting together for my girlfriend & myself.

Here's where we stand currently:

The Vantages are currently being run by an Anthem TLP-1 preamp (bought thru AudiogoN )and the front channels of the Harman-Kardon AVR7000 (100 wpc) receiver I took out of my own home theater setup.

Tho the surround processor section of the receiver had gone south, the amps are fine.

As H/K receivers are known for being fairly high-current units,this will allow the speakers to get their 90 hour break-in as I look around for a suitable dedicated amp.

Since $800 is the ceiling for how much we're willing to spend for an amp ( with the option of upgrading after tax-time next year ), most of the recommendations sent my way were thought-provoking, but quite abit out of our current price-range.

With that in-mind...

...and the added parameter that it had to appeal to her aesthetically ("I don't want one of those Huge,Black, Ugly Boxes in the living room", she says)...

...I was initially leaning towards a used Sunfire stereo amp.

I'm keeping an eye open for an early McCormack unit on the used-gear market: I recall hearing a pair of Quests run by an amp from this Virginia-based company a few years back & was very impressed by the sound.

Another amp to consider is the Nelson Pass-designed Adcom GFA-555 that can be had within the price-range I'm working with;

(Getting this will take me back to the "Huge, Black, Ugly Box-Argument", I know, but the cost-savings may be worth it.)

I'm really interested in auditioning the Emotiva RPA-1 with the system.

Besides the Sunfire, this is the only other amp my girl likes in regards to looks.

( The SAF in all it's glory, donchaknow?) :)

I've read nothing but glowing reports on the overall quality and sound of this amplifier here online and elsewhere.

A 30 home audition, a 200 dual-mono design & it's price is an uncanny $699 (currently on-sale at their site for a hundred dollars less than this) makes this amp very tempting ,indeed.

In talking to the tech at their site, I was assured that the amp can easily handle a 2ohm load.

As far as the source; I will get the Squeezebox and put it with a MHDT DAC.

(Just about finished importing both of our cd collections into lossless files for use with iTunes onto a rarely -used computer upstairs)

Due to her work, she's long had wi-fi in the house, so that's already taken care of.

What I would like to find is a used DAC that will take two inputs and switch between them via without much fuss;

(perhaps via remote control or, like my Quadscan Video Processor for the home theater, by making the switch based on whichever source is active at the time )

one from the output of the Squeezebox & the other from the 5-disc cd changer that will tbe in the system for those times when guests come over with music of their own .

The lady likes the Harmony 1000 remote ( "it's pretty") & and my own experience with their lower end models have certainly been positive.

I've been looking into the various interconnects and speaker wire that provides good bang-for-the-buck and will compliment the overall sound of the system.


I see that I have to figure out how to tame the boominess of the bass in some parts of the room with cost-effective (and decor-friendly) sound-treatments, as well.

[your suggestions/input will be most helpful, folks]

Even so, the Vantages have returned us both to the pleasures of simply darkening a room and just LISTENING to the music.

An experience that will only deepen as the system matures.

As before; I look forward to reading your comments.

-Val :music:

If you have the opportunity, try the often overlooked Meridian 557 as I did. Has 200/ch, reasonable on the used market usually at less than $1000, and well suited to the ML's from my limited experience. No top end grain or hardness, just lots of detail and deep, deep soundstage. Has balanced inputs and 2 sets of very good quality speaker posts too! Superb build quality. 55 pounds of heaven.
img_B7058.jpg
 
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The Vantage is a great speaker

I startet to run mine on a 20w tubeamp..not that good.
Then on a Rogue audio kronus ( EL 34 ) that was a quite sweet setup. ( the rouge must be quite cheap on the US used marked )
After that I had a Radford sta 25. 15w 40 year old tube amp.... Super sweet sound, but not as punchy in the bass department as the Rogue
Today I use a MC275. It has a better bottom than the Radford, but might not be as sweet as the Radford.

Last week I sat up a set of old b&w 801 S80 driven by a Yamaha PC2002 ( 240w proff amp ) ( great setup by the way...It can play insanely loud )

And here for the point of the post ( at last ) I have used the PC2002 on my vantage as well, and it sound great .. I could live with it, and you must be able to source one very cheap.

( The rest of my setup is streaming based with either DAC 1 ( benchmakr ) or M-audio m-dac.
 
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