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Jobo

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I just found out about and listened to some Martin Logans a couple days ago. Now I want a whole ML setup. :D I am an amateur/newbie in the world of audio and audio equipment, to say the least, but wanted to get some feedback on what I want to do. So any suggestions, comments, corrections, etc. are most welcome.

I am setting up a theater room. The purpose of the room will be to show slideshows, video, and images to clients (and the occasional HD/Blue ray movie). I want the audio to be exceptional. Music will be playing to the slideshows/presentations. I have a Sony HD projector (1080p) and a fixed screen that runs wall to wall.

I want the clients to have a wonderful audio/visual experience but I am not certain on what exactly I want/need for a setup, and I am much more ignorant when it comes to the other components needed to run this setup (i.e. amps, receiver, wires, and anything else I may need). Besides the essential things needed to run this equipment, I need my receiver to input/output DVI, HDMI, and VGA. I will occasionally need to connect a laptop on the fly to show clients their images, slideshows, presentations, etc., so a DVI/VGA video connection is essential, as well as the audio input/output from the computer.

Do I need/want a 5.1 setup? I'm guessing yes, but not sure. What setups can I or should I go with? I was considering getting a center (not sure which one), 2 Clarity speakers for the fronts and not sure which for rears. But reading a bit more it seems like the Summits are noticeably better. But do you think I need to spend the extra money on the summits?

I was thinking of these two setups:

High End - I was thinking that the “ideal” system would be:
Center: Stage
Fronts: Summit
Rears: Not really sure???
Sub: Not really sure???

Low end - I was thinking that the “ideal” system would be:
Center: Cinema i
Fronts: Clarity
Rears: Not really sure???
Sub: Not really sure???


Another thing necessary for my room is that it has to look GREAT. So I would guess I would want the wiring run through the walls, but then again your advice is needed.

Anyway, I will start with that, since this is a bit overwhelming for me at this stage.

I hope to be able to find the right system that will be a joy both to my clients and my family.

Thanks!
 
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JoBo,

Welcome

What you are searching for is attainable. I think you will get tons of opinions here. One of the questions we or anyone will ask is is budget. Also what size is the room and how is it set up, i.e wood floors, carpet, lots of glass, etc?. These are some things that will help all of us give you a better idea on which way to do and give you the best at what you are trying to do.

Also where are you in Southern California? I may be able to get someone to help with the selection of everything you need. :D

Jeff:cool:
 
Jeff Zaret said:
JoBo,

Welcome

What you are searching for is attainable. I think you will get tons of opinions here. One of the questions we or anyone will ask is is budget. Also what size is the room and how is it set up, i.e wood floors, carpet, lots of glass, etc?. These are some things that will help all of us give you a better idea on which way to do and give you the best at what you are trying to do.

Also where are you in Southern California? I may be able to get someone to help with the selection of everything you need. :D

Jeff:cool:
Click to expand...
Hola and welcome JoBo. Jeff is one of our best golden ears around. Also he is a musician. You can trust in his recommendations for sure. He knows all the ML line and can guide you in the right track for your system. Congrastulations with your new Summits. Try to audition the Stage center channel...it was designed to match the Summits...happy listening,
Roberto.:musicnote:
 
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Jobo said:
I just found out about and listened to some Martin Logans a couple days ago. Now I want a whole ML setup. :D I am an amateur/newbie in the world of audio and audio equipment, to say the least, but wanted to get some feedback on what I want to do. So any suggestions, comments, corrections, etc. are most welcome.

I am setting up a theater room. The purpose of the room will be to show slideshows, video, and images to clients (and the occasional HD/Blue ray movie). I want the audio to be exceptional. Music will be playing to the slideshows/presentations. I have a Sony HD projector (1080p) and a fixed screen that runs wall to wall.

I want the clients to have a wonderful audio/visual experience but I am not certain on what exactly I want/need for a setup, and I am much more ignorant when it comes to the other components needed to run this setup (i.e. amps, receiver, wires, and anything else I may need). Besides the essential things needed to run this equipment, I need my receiver to input/output DVI, HDMI, and VGA. I will occasionally need to connect a laptop on the fly to show clients their images, slideshows, presentations, etc., so a DVI/VGA video connection is essential, as well as the audio input/output from the computer.

Do I need/want a 5.1 setup? I'm guessing yes, but not sure. What setups can I or should I go with? I was considering getting a center (not sure which one), 2 Clarity speakers for the fronts and not sure which for rears. But reading a bit more it seems like the Summits are noticeably better. But do you think I need to spend the extra money on the summits?

I was thinking of these two setups:

High End - I was thinking that the “ideal” system would be:
Center: Stage
Fronts: Summit
Rears: Not really sure???
Sub: Not really sure???

Low end - I was thinking that the “ideal” system would be:
Center: Cinema i
Fronts: Clarity
Rears: Not really sure???
Sub: Not really sure???


Another thing necessary for my room is that it has to look GREAT. So I would guess I would want the wiring run through the walls, but then again your advice is needed.

Anyway, I will start with that, since this is a bit overwhelming for me at this stage.

I hope to be able to find the right system that will be a joy both to my clients and my family.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The room, in this case, is one of the most important parameters. Is it going to be a dedicated room with theater style seating? Or this is sort of like a board room type of environment where there's a large table in the center of the room?

Erik
 
Thanks for the response!

Well let me just say that its a weird feeling figuring out that I thought I new a little bit more about audio than I actually do. I contented myself with the basic systems you find at Best Buy, etc. and didn't realize there was a whole other world I know nothing about. A bit humbling too.

Anyway, as far as a budget goes it's hard to say as I am working on speculation, but I would say 15k, possibly a tad more.

Room size. I'll be able to get the exact measurements next week, but if it helps it is a rectangular room/loft. Dimensions are probably close to 10' x 15'. There are windows on on the front and right sides. On the left side there are three square niches overlooking down to the first floor. The back wall is solid. It is all carpet. I will be covering up the front widow and placing a fixed 120" screen.

I am moving to Murrieta/Temecula, CA (Riverside County) next week, and currently I am in Ventura County, CA.

If there are any other questions, please ask, and thanks for the help.
 
eknuds01 said:
The room, in this case, is one of the most important parameters. Is it going to be a dedicated room with theater style seating? Or this is sort of like a board room type of environment where there's a large table in the center of the room?

Erik
Click to expand...

It will be a dedicated room with theater style seating.
 
Jobo said:
It will be a dedicated room with theater style seating.
Click to expand...

If the budget is 15k, then I wouldn't go with Summits since that's going to eat up most of the budget (unless you can find a demo deal or a used pair) on the just the Front Channel speakers. You're going to need a fair amount of cash for the rear channels, amps (or maybe a good integrated amp is all you need), cabling, installation, etc.

I'd go with...

Front: Vantages

Rear channel: Script i, but depending on the room, you might need to go with Vignette/Ticket/Passage, etc.

Lots of ways to amp this sucker. You can go with something like a Rotel RSX 1067 (big multichannel amp) or a maybe a solid multichannel amp (any of the newer sunfire models and a pre-amp/processor). There are tons and tons of choices here. It all depends on your taste, budget, and what products are available in your area do you can audition before you buy.

Sub: Tweeter is having a sale on the Grotto, but a depth would be nice.

Cabling: Again, this is a subjective choice. However, lots of folks on this forum swear by Nordost, Kimber, Audioquest, Mit cables, etc. I have also had the pleasure of listening to JPS labs. Those are excellent.

Since you are wanting to spend around 15k, I am willing to bet any number of high-end audio stores are going to be tripping over themselves to set you up. A number of stores will have dedicated rooms with theater style seating and if you call ahead they (assuming they carry Logans) will set the room up with what you want. But it all depends on the store.


best,
Erik
 
Jobo said:
Thanks for the response!

as far as a budget goes it's hard to say as I am working on speculation, but I would say 15k, possibly a tad more.

Room size. I'll be able to get the exact measurements next week, but if it helps it is a rectangular room/loft. Dimensions are probably close to 10' x 15'.
Click to expand...


That's a small room, with a budget of 15k, as Erik said that would be a waste on Summitt's for that size room not to mention what little you would have left for the rest of your gear. Vantage's would be plenty big enough, since your thinking HT the Vista's with a nice sub would allow even more $$ to be spent elsewhere.
 
That is a small room. At 10' by 15' I would think you are only going to get about 3 or 4 theater style seats in that room. I agree that you shouldn't consider the Summits. The Vantages or Vistas would be better suited to that size room and even the Clarities would sound good in there with a proper sub.

Also consider that Martin Logan is coming out with some new speakers similar to the Clarities, which should be available pretty soon I think.

Probably a Depth would be your best sub, but a grotto may suffice for that size room. Definitely consider a Stage for center channel, although again ML is coming out with a smaller center channel soon that will be less expensive than the Stage.

For amplification and surround sound processing, look towards Rotel, Sunfire, Anthem, and Outlaw Audio for starters. There are numerous other possibilities. For that small of a room, you may want to consider some bass traps for the corners. Good luck.
 
15K?

More for HT?

I would go with the new Purity or Source speakers for mains and rears. Then the new Motif center.... then a pair of Depths or one Descent i for subwoofage and you got yourself a killer setup.

Joey
 
Joey_V said:
I would go with the new Purity or Source speakers for mains and rears. Then the new Motif center.... then a pair of Depths or one Descent i for subwoofage and you got yourself a killer setup.
Joey
Click to expand...

Joey,
Do you know when the Motif will be available? I'm looking at that one myself! I think the dispersion is going to be much better and more suited to HT with the convex design instead of the concave (I hope I got those two right).
 
I'm curious about that as well. I would like to get a Stage but its size is really causing problems with my wife. She saw the picture of the Motif and was much more receptive to that speaker. Plus, will that be "enough" of a center speaker to match the Summits in a HT setup?
 
HT suggestions

Not wanting to put water on the fire here, but in a room that small if you are trying to get this set up in a video based system with seating (and I'm assuming multiple listeners..) ML may not be the answer for you.

Just keep in mind that any of the ML speakers really need to be at least a couple of feet out from the wall to get the most out of them and none of them
(Summits included) have a terribly big sweet spot. So, the off axis listening experience might be less than exciting for all than perhaps two listeners.

I know when I had the Vantages here, with more than two people on the couch, the ones out of the good zone would say things like "these speakers sound really flat". Then going into the sweet spot would say things like "you mean I can only sit here to get the good sound?"

Again, I love my Summits tremendously. I just hate to see you go down this path and be less than thrilled with your ML setup. Perhaps your dealer might let you take a pair home for the weekend to see how they would work in the room.

Just a suggestion....

One more suggestion should you decide to stay here, consider a nice used pair of Aerius... In a small room like that they would do quite well and you could probably get a set for about 1200 bucks tops... More money for everything else in the system!!
 
tonepub said:
Just keep in mind that any of the ML speakers really need to be at least a couple of feet out from the wall to get the most out of them and none of them
(Summits included) have a terribly big sweet spot. So, the off axis listening experience might be less than exciting for all than perhaps two listeners.
Click to expand...

I think part of the problem is that the sweet spot is SOOOO SWEET, that when you move out of it you really feel left out in the cold. Off axis is still better w/ ML's than a LOT of other speakers, but yes, they do have a pretty narrow primary listening position. I would say it is about 4 people... two rows of two and outside that "box" is not going to be prime.

That said, the other say 4 people sitting around these 4 (for a total of 8) are still getting a better audio experience that they would with most other point source speakers... YMMV.
 
Thanks for all the help, and I understand where you are coming from regarding not using ML. I will look at others, but want to do everything possible to go with ML.

Here is an idea, let me know what you think (if it would suit my needs, not be enough, or be overkill).

Center: Cinema i / Fresco i
Front: Vantage / Clarity
Rear: Script i / Vignette
Sub: Depth i / Grotto

Receiver: ? Is any Yamaha, Denon, etc. OK??? Or any suggestions on this.
Amp: I do not really understand this concept (so do these plug into the receiver?) And do I need one for just the fonts or all speakers? Wow, I feel pathetically dumb right now . . .
 
For a home theater demo, power is going to be important to achieve the dynamics and listening levels typically associated with movies. I would definitely recommend an amp, even though I'm just a newbie. :p I recently upgraded from a Harmon Kardon receiver to a Sunfire amp to power my Vantages and the difference on movies is huge. You're looking at possibly having electrostats all the way around and 4 ohm impedance or less. Most receivers are not rated for 4 ohm loads, but some can do OK with it. I think a poor little receiver would choke at high volumes trying to drive all 5 channels, IMHO. If you went with the Fresco and the Vignette for center and surrounds, you 'might' be OK with a receiver.
 
Center: Cinema i / Fresco i
Front: Vantage / Clarity
Rear: Script i / Vignette
Sub: Depth i / Grotto
Click to expand...

These are both good combinations. However, I recommend going with a separate Preamp/Processor (prepro) and 5 channel amplifier instead of a receiver. A prepro/amp combo will compliment the speakers much better than a receiver. The reason is that a well matched amp will do a better job of driving the speakers than most receivers.

Look for an amp that doubles in wattage in relation to the ohms. I.E. a Sunfire or Krell amp rated at 200 watts at 8 ohms also doubles down to 400 watts at 4 ohms. An amp like this will ensure there is plenty of reserve power on tap for dynamics (spikes) in sound. Receivers are typically weak in reserve power and somewhat compromised in the preamp stages.

For my home theater system I use a B&K Reference 50 PrePro and a Sunfire Theater Grand Cinema 5 channel amplifier. It works great driving 3 ML speakers. Most subs have thier own internal amp.

You can save some money and get by with a receiver but to do it right you'll get better performance with a seperate prepro/amp combo. The downside is that you'll need a few more cables to budget for. If you do go the reciever route then be sure to get high-end powerful receiver.

Most importantly...Have fun with it and enjoy it!
 
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Ok, so basically to get the necessary power to the speakers I need and amp.

When You say go with a "Preamp/Processor (prepro) and 5 channel amplifier instead of a receiver" Then I'm guessing that I can do away with a receiver all together. That right?

If I do not go with a receiver, then I am also guessing that I will not be plugging everything into one thing (aka receiver) and then outputting from it.

What I was planning on doing was having everything connected to my receiver (video projector, PS3, Xbox 360, DVD, CD, Turntable, laptop once in a while for presentations/slideshows, speakers, etc.). So without the receiver how would I make this work?

THANKS!
 
With a preamp/processor you will still plug everything into it, just like a receiver. It will have all the connections that you'd find on a typical receiver and then some. The difference between a dedicated preamp/processor and a receiver is that a processor doesn't have an amplifier built-in at all. It has no terminals to connect speakers like a receiver does. Just be sure to get one that is capable of 5 channel output and make sure it has all the video and audio connections you need.

If you already have a receiver, you can save some money by using it like a preamp/processor. Most of the better receivers like Denon, HK, Yamaha will have pre-out jacks on the back that allow it to be connected to a separate amplifier. The sound quality may not be as good as you would get from a dedicated preamp/processor, but to stay within your budget, you may need to.

I think you will get more bang for the buck with a separate amplifier so I would definitely recommend that, but if the budget runs tight, look for a decent receiver with pre-outs.
 
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Jobo said:
Ok, so basically to get the necessary power to the speakers I need and amp.

Yes.

When You say go with a "Preamp/Processor (prepro) and 5 channel amplifier instead of a receiver" Then I'm guessing that I can do away with a receiver all together. That right?

Not so fast. You can certainly purchase an ''all-in-one" unit that has a surround processor, amplifiers for the speakers, tuner, etc. Most of the well-known high end companies (that make amps, pre-amps, etc) have integrated amps that the aforementioned capabilities.

If I do not go with a receiver, then I am also guessing that I will not be plugging everything into one thing (aka receiver) and then outputting from it.

Yes, if you got the seperate component route, your speaker wires run to the amp(s) and the CD player, processor, amps, etc will run to the pre-amp.

What I was planning on doing was having everything connected to my receiver (video projector, PS3, Xbox 360, DVD, CD, Turntable, laptop once in a while for presentations/slideshows, speakers, etc.). So without the receiver how would I make this work?

Well most of that stuff can indeed be connected to a pre-amp that has the proper outputs. It's a matter of looking for a pre-amp that has the desired features.

THANKS!
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that on this forum, most of us like to go the seperate component route for a few reasons. I would say many people who are on this forum love to tweak and tinker with their systems. For example, it's fairly common for a lot of people to start out with solid state amps and pre-amps, but maybe down the line someone would like to inject tubes into the set up. This is done straightforwardly by: getting a tube amp, a tube pre-amp, or even a CD player with a tube output stage. Or even all three together.

Or, some people might want to experiment with bi-amping. So let's say you have a nice SS amp and a pre-amp. You can purchase a tube amp for the panels (lots of people like to do this) and let the old SS amp simply power the woofers.

So with seperate components, it seems that you have the freedom to change things around as you see fit.

Just keep in mind that this all entirely subjective and it's certainly possible that a high quality integrated amp (I'd check out Krell and/or Sunfire) is all you need.

Erik
 
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