Aerius : seamless or not?

I would be grateful if the Aerius owners inform me about their experience with this problem, i.e. if they found that the mid-high frequences are too distinct (in a bad way) or not from the bass output. Most audiophiles in Italy seriously citicize the Aerius for this problem.

Is there a difference between the Aerius (sealed woofer) and the Aerius i (bass-reflex) behavior from this point of view?

Thank you.

Luca

Luca, I don't think the Aerius suffers this problem. In fact, one of the best attributes of the Aerius is the seamless presentation over its entire frequency range, without an emphasis in any portion of the range. At the time it was initially released, it was rated better in this regard than some other MLs.
-Steve

Luca58 said:

I would be grateful if the Aerius owners inform me about their experience with this problem, i.e. if they found that the mid-high frequences are too distinct (in a bad way) or not from the bass output. Most audiophiles in Italy seriously citicize the Aerius for this problem.

Is there a difference between the Aerius (sealed woofer) and the Aerius i (bass-reflex) behavior from this point of view?

Thank you.

Luca

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It depends. Your room makes a big impact here. I have the Aerius i and I am suprised how good the low end is on these speakers.

Yet, adding a nice sub (like the Depth) makes everything ever better.

It all depends on on who you talk to. I have been very pleased with my speakers!

I had the Aerius for many many years. I think it suffers from this problem very very little. Certainly a lot less than most other MLs. As SlowGeezer said, it has always been one of the better MLs when it comes to this.

Granted - all MLs suffer from this slightly (and it may depend on how sensitive you are to the issue), but the Aerius was certainly more seamless than my current Vistas (the Vistas are better at other things though).

Thank you for your kind answers.

Luca

amey01 said:

I had the Aerius for many many years. I think it suffers from this problem very very little. Certainly a lot less than most other MLs. As SlowGeezer said, it has always been one of the better MLs when it comes to this.

Granted - all MLs suffer from this slightly (and it may depend on how sensitive you are to the issue), but the Aerius was certainly more seamless than my current Vistas (the Vistas are better at other things though).

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I agree 100%, my pair of original Aerius speakers are from the first couple hundred made, bought them when they first came out.

.............I just re-read what he wrote.

mid-high frequences are too distinct

This is true, you will hear the master tape "tape hiss" on many fine recordings if you your put your ear right next to the speaker.

Please remember that in America we have larger rooms and do not conduct the amount of "near-field" listening that they may do in Italy. The mid-high frequences are not a problem when seated far enough back and with proper acoustic room treatments. More of a problem for some is the rolled off extreem high frequencies and the modest amount of bass. These are not additive problems and are very easy to live with.

In my opinion the original Aerius is the best balanced and integrated speaker money can buy, or at least the amount of money I can afford to spend.

Basing on your experience, do you think that the seamless experience depends on the type of amplifier chosen?

Ciao.

Luca

it is not the amp...it is the choice of crossover frequency between the woofer and panel ... this is noticeable even on the Summits as the lower range of male voices and piano are coming from floor level instead of the panel. The Monoliths got this right unlike all the other hybrids.

wallacefl said:

crossover frequency.... Monoliths..right

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Interesting comment, below is a sampling of M/L speakers covering decades - looking for a pattern.

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=38

Crossover Frequency:
Aerius: 500 Hz 12dB per octave

Aerius i: 450 Hz

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http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=49

Prodigy
Crossover Frequency: 250

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http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=36

Monolith III

Electronic
Crossover: THD: Less than .003% @ 1kHz @ 1 Vms 80 - 250 Watts per channel
Signal to Noise: Greater than 95dB
Crossover Point: 125 Hz @ 18dB per octave
Low Frequency Adjust: Level: -3 to dB from 30 to 80Hz
Circuit Topology: Full complementary class-A current biased J-FET buffers isolate passive filter networks

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http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=30

Monolith

Crossover Profile: 100 Hz Center
6dB per octave, phase coherent

Click to expand...

Luca58 said:

Basing on your experience, do you think that the seamless experience depends on the type of amplifier chosen?

Ciao.

Luca

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Finding the right pairing of components is always essential, but I think amp choice would have little to do with the seamless experience. The speaker just happens to be a really good design when it comes to bass integration.

amey01 said:

Finding the right pairing of components is always essential, but I think amp choice would have little to do with the seamless experience. The speaker just happens to be a really good design when it comes to bass integration.

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I agree, but maybe we can explore other types of integration that effect a "seemless perception".

If you read comments on pages 2 & 3 of this thread (C.A.P., Kruppy and kach22i) about member "Kenscollick" system you will see that phase distortion and small sweetspots are not found in all M/L products and user setups. Of course it was "seemless" in all other respects.......except perhaps a clearly best listening DBL level (louder was better in this system).

Link:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4178&page=2

Prodigy ...Krell fbp400cx ....Wadia 861 with the Great Northern Sounds mod..........

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I must also point out that the mid-upper frequency emphasis on the original Aerius is very far from the lower mid/ upper bass cross over frequency of the drivers.

wallacefl said:

it is not the amp...it is the choice of crossover frequency between the woofer and panel ... this is noticeable even on the Summits as the lower range of male voices and piano are coming from floor level instead of the panel. The Monoliths got this right unlike all the other hybrids.

Click to expand...

Beg to differ. While they are probably the most correct, in terms of they had the lowest crossover, they still have issues with mid-bass performance.
Which is why my Monoliths cross over at 315Hz with 24dB/octave slopes into a new woofer able to handle mid-bass cleanly. But agree that the presentation suffers a bit from the mid-bass being a point-source.

The ultimate ESL to dynamic pairing has to be a line array for the mid-bass (vs a point-source woofer). As I've demonstrated with my SL3XC, I achieve balanced mid-bass along with symmetrical line-source projection characteristics that match the ESL.

Again, this why the Statement e2 system also went with a line array, and is the ultimate representation of ‘ideal’ ESL to dynamic pairings.

I had the Aerius in a fairly small room (about 12 x 16) and did not have an issue with the integration....

It wasn't perfect (I had just gotten rid of a pair of Acoustat 1+1's) but overall I was very happy with them for a number of years.

Hi Luca58, I think it suffers from this problem very very little.Actuall it was "seemless" in other respects being to my ears the mid-vocal produce by the woofer is not enough as the cross over point for aerius was 500Hz which mean that the woofer use must be able to handle mid-bass cleanly. I also notice that the presentation suffers a bit from the mid-bass being a point-source especially the bass note when listening DBL level.

With all the above issue i had tried ported the box at the rear as to make it bass-reflex behavior and found the bass increase but not as good as it was before (sealed). I take out the original woofer and show it to my friend expert on this says, the woofer used was "Free air type" which mean its most suitable for sealed box.
In my opinion the original woofer in Aerius is the best choice by ML at the price.
I follow closely our "Sifu" here mr JonFo and try replacing the original aerius woofer with the woofer from Roger Ls5/9 speaker which also same size, 20 cm diameter and fit nicelly as in the attach picture.
The real pannel was modify to improve standing wave in the box. The super tweater also installed as in the picture to extend the high frequency up to 30 KhZ. With all the mod I had done to my Aerius, I can says its make me very happy as I achieve balanced mid-bass along with symmetrical line-source projection characteristics that match the ESL. One more thing i would say that this speaker now i like to listen most compare to my Sonus Faber Extrema that i use as a refference for moding my Aerius.


Thank you.

That's quite a modification...................I guess its a serious hobby.