Another recording.... RUINED!

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MotorToad

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Indeed. Another of my favorite all-time recordings has fallen prey to Martin & Logan (what I've named the left and right speakers, respectively:)). Several of my rock and grunge recordings have fallen down my scaled-by-pleasure music rack because they're just crappy studio work and are fatiguing to listen to. [A few surprises have surfaced, too, like Green Day's Dookie and Poe's Hello, both of which sound pretty stinking good.]

I've been listening to Vivaldi's Four Seasons performed by the Academy of Ancient Music since 1987 (410 126-2 L'Oiseau-Lyre), and it's been my favorite classical performance recording because it sounds like (because it is) a group of people playing music and not like a bunch of studio tracks plugged together. I've listened to it start to end hundreds of times on headphones and on my pre-ML Mirage M-490s. I spent countless hours on a submarine listening to it on some decent Sony headphones (around $100 at the time) and you can hear the people that are playing the music, specifically things like when a chair gets moved (you can plainly hear that it's a folding metal chair with plastic feet like what you see in churches or auditoriums) or someone coughs, muted in the distance. But also it sounds like an awesome performance on period instruments.

What I never heard is that it's an outside recording. I suppose that's why I've always liked the piece so much... no room acoustics. However, played now it sounds like a freaking train in the living room because the mic is picking up wind noise at very low frequency. Even with the bass turned all the way down it's unbearable.

Crappitty-crap-crap. Damn this fidelity and all its bastard truthfulness.
 
HAha. Yes, I am just starting to get an inkling of this issue. My favorite recording of Vivaldi's Four Seasons is by Il Giardino Armonico. Played with true fire and passion as compared to the ubiquitous, pedestrian, ho-hum performances out there.

On the other hand, I still haven't listened to it on the ML's !!!
 
That's why I aim for the middle ground in my setup. I still want to enjoy....enjoyable music. I do not want my considerable audio investment to "banish" my favorite poorly recorded albums :)
 
That's why I aim for the middle ground in my setup. I still want to enjoy....enjoyable music. I do not want my considerable audio investment to "banish" my favorite poorly recorded albums :)
Yes, but how can I get the best out of the good stuff and not hear the bad? Do I really need a 2-channel listening system, an HT system for TV, and a Bose system to smear the engineers' gaffs on Hootie & the Blowfish? :D
 
You're making a horrible mistake . . . .

I don't know about the studio stuff, but if you want to hear the Vivaldi properly (without headphones), you'll simply have to take Mssrs. Martin and Logan outdoors! (Or put them in an ancechoic chamber :rolleyes:)
 
I asked Jim P about putting them in our anechoic here at work and he asked the engineers and they said it would not sound good at all. Of course I should admit that it is the worlds largest anechoic chamber which we suspend planes from the ceiling with the exception of a few like the B-52!

I would think it would need some areas for reflection and absorption and ours is just way too large. In the factory they rarely play music through the speakers. They are test with sine waves generators and I sure there maybe a few now and then where they use music.

AS for outdoors I would think it would be similar where they may sound flat and somewhat two dimensional without the absorption and reflectity


Sorry for getting off the subject

Neil, if you are interested I may be able to find a pic to send you.


Jeff:cool:
 
It's a paradox isn't it.

I got into stats to listen to the music pieces I loved, and ended up not liking them anymore and discovering new music instead. All for the better, except for the nostalgia.
 
Think: speakers-as-headphones. . . . .

I asked Jim P about putting them in our anechoic here at work and he asked the engineers and they said it would not sound good at all. I would think it would need some areas for reflection and absorption and ours is just way too large. AS for outdoors I would think it would be similar where they may sound flat and somewhat two dimensional without the absorption and reflectity. Jeff:cool:
The ML engineers are forgetting that the outdoor-or-anechoic setup(s) have their own very special speaker placement requirement(s). i.e., NOT like in your listening room!! OK, now you're all going to find out what an Acoustics freak I truly am. I did take my CLS's outdoors. In 1990, I was moving from Hollywood to Santa Fe, and figured: What the hell! They're already outside. No need to box 'em right away!

Start by spacing their inner edges about 18" apart w/ 30 degree toe-in. Sit with your head at the intersection of the two speakers' horizontal axes on a stool that puts your ears at the midpoint height of the panels. Magic, pure magic!! This exercise is best done at about 4 in morning in a large field in the country. I was in a small backyard in the city, at midnight, so conditions were not ideal :eek: , but it was pretty amazing, I'll never forget it :bowdown:
 
The ML engineers are forgetting that the outdoor-or-anechoic setup(s) have their own very special speaker placement requirement(s). i.e., NOT like in your listening room!! OK, now you're all going to find out what an Acoustics freak I truly am. I did take my CLS's outdoors. In 1990, I was moving from Hollywood to Santa Fe, and figured: What the hell! They're already outside. No need to box 'em right away!

Start by spacing their inner edges about 18" apart w/ 30 degree toe-in. Sit with your head at the intersection of the two speakers' horizontal axes on a stool that puts your ears at the midpoint height of the panels. Magic, pure magic!! This exercise is best done at about 4 in morning in a large field in the country. I was in a small backyard in the city, at midnight, so conditions were not ideal :eek: , but it was pretty amazing, I'll never forget it :bowdown:

Is that really 18" (inches)? The 30 degree toe-in would mean listening position about 20 inches from them--I doubt at those distances there would be much difference outdoors and indoors. Now if they are 18' (feet) apart and listening to them 20 feet away should be a great experiment, as I've noticed that these speakers like a lot of distance between them and the listening position.
 
that is correct

Is that really 18" (inches)? The 30 degree toe-in would mean listening position about 20 inches from them--I doubt at those distances there would be much difference outdoors and indoors. Now if they are 18' (feet) apart and listening to them 20 feet away should be a great experiment, as I've noticed that these speakers like a lot of distance between them and the listening position.
Well, I did say start with 18 inches ;) But yes, tight formation is the key, so your ears will be a couple feet away (of course, you do want each ear to hear each panel's entire surface as much as possible -- but better to err on being a little too close.) You realize that in an outdoor/anechoic environment, once the speaker launches a wave, it loses its power at an amazing rate, and almost immediately disappears into an acoustic 'black hole'. Getting any Sound Pressure Level (in Decibels) outdoors from a large, light, membrane is next to impossible. That's why PA system speakers employ compression drivers with highly directional multi-cellular horns -- to get ALL the SPL pointed at the people and not wasted anywhere else.

So, with Logans outside, you need to sit close! But it's like no listening experience you've ever had -- I promise. I remember listening to the $5000 Stax electrostatic headphones at CES a couple years back and thinking, "This reminds me of back in nineteen and ninety, when I was moving and had the CLS's . . . . ." ;)
 
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So, with Logans outside, you need to sit close! But it's like no listening experience you've ever had -- I promise.
IMHO this directly related the acoustics of a line source vs a point source. As I and others have stated before, the volume of a line source is inversely proportional to the listening distance, while that of a point source to the square of that distance. That is, move twice as far from your Logans and the volume is now 1/2, while from a cone speaker it will be 1/4. Combine that with the detail and clarity of the Logans, and you've got one heck of a listening experience!
 
IMHO this directly related the acoustics of a line source vs a point source. As I and others have stated before, the volume of a line source is inversely proportional to the listening distance, while that of a point source to the square of that distance. That is, move twice as far from your Logans and the volume is now 1/2, while from a cone speaker it will be 1/4. Combine that with the detail and clarity of the Logans, and you've got one heck of a listening experience!

Neat! I didn't know that... I love this place... :D
 
HAha. Yes, I am just starting to get an inkling of this issue. My favorite recording of Vivaldi's Four Seasons is by Il Giardino Armonico. Played with true fire and passion as compared to the ubiquitous, pedestrian, ho-hum performances out there.

On the other hand, I still haven't listened to it on the ML's !!!

I have the fone' 45 RPM all analog edition of the 4 seasons. It's a great recording. I just wished fone' records weren't so damn expensive and hard to come by.
 
What is fone'?

Never owned a single vinyl in my life. Heard a few of my dad's back when...

I've always ASSumed that vinyl's weren't worth buying since the advent of the CD (I'm sure many here had already spent a lot on records before then), but hearing how amazing my setup is so far, I'd be really curious to how good vinyl's can truly sound... I've seen some fancy looking players while browsing around here, thats for sure!
 
JK,

A good vinyl setup (and I'm not talking multi-thousand$$$ here.... just your run of the mill $500 or under TT) will get you better sound (i.e. more natural, better focus and imaging) than a CDP or DAC several times that price.
 
JK,

A good vinyl setup (and I'm not talking multi-thousand$$$ here.... just your run of the mill $500 or under TT) will get you better sound (i.e. more natural, better focus and imaging) than a CDP or DAC several times that price.

I couldn't agree more Joey - so when are you going to come to the dark (as in the black slab) side?
 
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