Is it just me or are we lacking?

Is it just me or do audiophiles from other countries outshine us Americans in general?

This has been brought up several times in various other forums... and if you examine the number of audiophile shops in Singapore or Bangkok or if you had to walk into one, you will realize that there is a big disparity between what the audiophile market there versus here. I have read reports of audio hifi stores towering 4 stories with audio gear that can make any audiophile weak in the knees... the best I got in Chicago Loop is Glenn Poor with 3 audio rooms!!!

I was also looking at systems from people at Bangkok and Singapore.... and they seem to put a whole lot of importance in good music reproduction, while we (as a majority) tend to shove small speakers in with large TVs.

Is it just me, or are we not as in-tune with the audio side of entertainment as those outside this country?

Some pics of some systems I saw from abroad:





I mean looking at that picture collection (those came from a dealer showing just a portion of his immense list of customers' systems!)... I'm not even sure if there are more than a handful in our club of wacky enthusiasts with systems as dedicated as those. Those foreigners are CRAZY!!!!

If their gear proves a point, perhaps they're more into music than we are.... perhaps we are way more into movies as a means of entertainment and we relegate audio as a secondary - a supporting cast to our daily lives.

Joey

Joey_V said:

Is it just me or do audiophiles from other countries outshine us Americans in general?....... Those foreigners are CRAZY!!!!
....... If their gear proves a point, perhaps they're more into music than we are....
Joey

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Joey,
Don't fall into this complex issue. The US is a big country, mostly well spread in development and affluence, whereas Singapore, Hongkong and most countries in region SEA are comparatively small in areas. So most of the audio/video activities are concentrated in the main town/commercial areas and in each of these countries, there is usually one and only such. The result of which is a concentration of all the available brand names into a relatively small location.

Take the citystate of Singapore for instance. We have a tendency to group similar types of commerce into a single building, street or neighbourhood. You want cars, there's Leng Kee Rd, kilobucks hifi/video in Adelphi, etc. It makes for easy shopping.

The impression to a visitor is therefore ..... crazy! And places like Hongkong,
Singapore and Bangkok are known as THE place to shop, especially for this part of the world, so you are likely to find most existing brands in place.

On your other point regarding systems. In my observations and experience, a good majority of owners of super systems are not true audiophiles. In other words, they are into it because their friends are into it - peer pressure. Once they leave the group, or the group's interest shifts, so do their interest. These are the ones with money to burn, and are usually owners of super systems - just like exotic cars. We even hear of owners of such systems being unable to operate them after the installation men have gone! Only a relatively small proportion are genuine hif-/video nuts.

I think it's hard to make generalizations based on citizenship!

When you say audiophile, do you mean...someone who enjoys symphonic performances, or someone who enjoys hi-fi gear? We have symphonies in every major city...and many non-major ones (I used to play in the Virginia Beach Symphony) and those concerts are generally very well attended.

Without reliable statistics on expenditures on hi-fi gear, it's hard to make a generalization, as there are all sorts of various business models...just because you have 10 smaller businesses selling 2 product lines, instead of one large store selling 20...doesn't mean you have more or less business...its just a different business model. An interesting concept, but I doubt that the information is readily available to prove or disprove your theory.

Also...does one person spending $1MM on a setup count as 100 people spending $10M? What's the benchmark? Howabout DIYers? I will likely build most future speakers I own...but you won't find my setup in any audio shop...and what's the value of it? It's designed to be very similar to the dali megaline in concept, but with a few modification...can I attach that value to those speakers once I build them? It's a complex issue...and comes down to what most conversations about generalization do...you shouldn't generalize. I'm far from being politically correct... but I just think that generalizations generally create more questions than they ever answer...and any answers they give are shoddy at best. My 2c.

Well I have lived in many countries including the US and would base my observations on the financial disposition to those who can afford. Priorities in households differ wildly from country to country and like the many pleasures in life exotic sound systems are just one of those priorities.

I suspect in the US there are so many other things that can distract from spending on exotic sound systems that it can be tough to cater to the few who really want to invest in something like the high-end audio market. High-end to many I knew in the US was a pair of Cewin Vega speakers (loud and proud). Try and educate some one who thinks like that.

Now when you end up in another country where people literally are living on top of each other they focus on the other attributes of sound reproduction (not maximum decibels). You meet many people with interests that are limited by their social surroundings and hence if their financial disposition permits they will eventually invest in a good sound system. Once that happens the next step to upgrading is just a matter of time. You soon realize that this is not a fly by night hobby, but a lifestyle to be cherished by those who wish to stimulate the ears. :bowdown:

I don't think you could come to any rational conclusions by polling the internet in this way.

I don't know this for fact, but I feel fairly comfortable relating audio "super systems" to the over-dollared retards that tend to buy "supercars." While it would be a foolish prejudice to say that everyone who buys a supercar is an idiot, I've seen enough to know they're out there and I think they are more often the ones you notice because they're the ones that bought the look and not the substance. Since they bought the look, they're the ones that need to be SEEN, or the money's [even more] wasted.

Having worked at a track I think I'm qualified to make these broad judgments regarding expensive cars and idiots buying them. I've seen a $500,000 Carrera GT turning 3-minute laps at Barber during a driving school. That's roughly the pace of a lunch-time lapping session for kids, I've seen a woman running a Harley-Davidson 30 seconds or so quicker. I've seen a guy whose first manual-shift car was an NSX. I've seen countless Porsche Turbos and Ferraris that were rolling chicanes for Miatas and CRXs. Oh, and then there's vintage racing! Guys with transporters and professional mechanics so they can putter around in half-million-dollar cars instead of taking driving lessons.

Cripes, I'll get back to the point here, sorry... It's just that I hate seeing no-talent ass clowns with nice cars.

What I mean is that I've seen no correlation to having the means and the stuff and having the wits to know what it's all about. And posting it up on the intarwebnets doesn't mean he's got a clue. Hell, look at that guy who wraps his amp internals with wedding invitations, or whatever that fiasco was.

Not polling, just interested in what you guys have to say.

The way I see it is like Ben said, there's a dense population spread over a small area and thus why we see a huge number of audio stores stocked up in one location, so the tourist sees this and is amazed. While we in the US are spread out far and wide.

Also, I think another issue is space. There is a lack of living space in a place like Bagkok, Singapore, or the Philippines and they can't accomodate full HT setups like most of us can, thus they tend to shy away from HT and remain 2ch.

Lastly, it may just be that we take note of the more affluent ones. But considering a probably large disparity between the rich and the poor, perhaps the sampling we get from surfing the net and serendipitously bumping into a few pages of their systems is probably not the best way to generalize their habits.

And no, I dont mean to generalize based on citizenship... I'm just curious as to as a society, are they more interested in HT or 2ch? Do they see stereo as a means of quality critical entertainment, or do they display ostentatious wealth via means of a nice stereo system and not care about the music, or are they like the majority in this iPod crazed country of ours?

Just a little friendly discussion.

MotorToad said:

... It's just that I hate seeing no-talent ass clowns with nice cars.

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Oh, oh. What does it say that I've got a red Cadillac CTS-V that I absolutely love. Six speed manual, 6 liter 'vet engine, 0-60 in 4.2 sec, and red. Yep, I'm afraid I might be one of the clowns (but I love driving it).

kcl said:

Oh, oh. What does it say that I've got a red Cadillac CTS-V that I love to drive.

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I never said you were an ass clown.

I wouldn't fault anyone for buying a nice car if he know what to do with it. What bugs me is people that buy Brand X because it's flashy and takes it to the track thinking that the car is what does the work. The same as what most of us would think seeing a $15,000 turntable sitting on a Cerwin Vega subwoofer.

My motorsport hobbies are sullied by people that think it's the material that matters, and I can see that very likely to happen with audio systems.

Hell, I would say I'm guilty of it. I bought the first hybrid ESL speakers that came available to me without even a half-serious listening test. I listened to them enough to tell that the four air movers were moving air, but they sounded HORRIBLE when I bought them and I had no evidence they'd be different when I got them home other than I knew they shouldn't be stuffed into a cove as they were.

Oh, and Joey: What I meant by "polling the internet" isn't that you asked the question here. It seemed to me that you'd come to your conclusion by taking the info you see daily from the (I'm sure many) forums you peruse and taking that as an average snapshot of the planet. I just don't think the broad view of the internet society squares up to the broad view of the actual world as such.

Joey_V said:

Not polling, just interested in what you guys have to say.

The way I see it is like Ben said, there's a dense population spread over a small area and thus why we see a huge number of audio stores stocked up in one location, so the tourist sees this and is amazed. While we in the US are spread out far and wide.

Also, I think another issue is space. There is a lack of living space in a place like Bagkok, Singapore, or the Philippines and they can't accomodate full HT setups like most of us can, thus they tend to shy away from HT and remain 2ch.

Lastly, it may just be that we take note of the more affluent ones. But considering a probably large disparity between the rich and the poor, perhaps the sampling we get from surfing the net and serendipitously bumping into a few pages of their systems is probably not the best way to generalize their habits.

And no, I dont mean to generalize based on citizenship... I'm just curious as to as a society, are they more interested in HT or 2ch? Do they see stereo as a means of quality critical entertainment, or do they display ostentatious wealth via means of a nice stereo system and not care about the music, or are they like the majority in this iPod crazed country of ours?

Just a little friendly discussion.

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What I meant regarding citizenship...is that citizenship likely has nothing to do with audiophile tendencies. It's like trying to measure IQ by height. Sure, you can run studies, and come up with some answer, like...6'5" guys are smarter than everyone else, but there's no causality, so it's a misleading statistic. See what I mean? Didn't mean to come off as unfriendly, if I did! I appreciate the sentiment, just can't bring myself to generalize about a group as diverse as americans, or "everybody else." How much does a German audiophile have in common with one from Singapore, or Brazil...probably no more or no less than they do with their american counterparts. Hope that was more helpful regarding my position

MotorToad said:

I never said you were an ass clown.

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And that right there is exactly why generalizations are hard to enforce...because for every person who fits that generalization...there's one who doesn't. In order to make them even remotely accurate, you end up having to conditionalize them to the point of making them pointless. Saying "all american audiophiles are" XXXXX is going to have the exact same response, where someone says "I'm like that...and it doesn't apply to me." and there's an awkward silence...

IWalker said:

like...6'5" guys are smarter than everyone else

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I'm in complete agreement with that statement!

Joey_V said:

Is it just me or do audiophiles from other countries outshine us Americans in general?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp4iI59BfpQ

lugano said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp4iI59BfpQ

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And the same video could be made in any other country. Stupidity transcends borders as well.

MotorToad said:

Having worked at a track I think I'm qualified to make these broad judgments regarding expensive cars and idiots buying them. I've seen a $500,000 Carrera GT turning 3-minute laps at Barber during a driving school. That's roughly the pace of a lunch-time lapping session for kids, I've seen a woman running a Harley-Davidson 30 seconds or so quicker. I've seen a guy whose first manual-shift car was an NSX. I've seen countless Porsche Turbos and Ferraris that were rolling chicanes for Miatas and CRXs. Oh, and then there's vintage racing! Guys with transporters and professional mechanics so they can putter around in half-million-dollar cars instead of taking driving lessons.

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Easy now...everyone has to start somewhere! As long as they are out there actually TRYING to get better my hat is off to them. If they are just out there to be seen, then GO HOME!! We don't need your SLOW A$$ on the track! Lots of these folks have FINALLY slowed down enough from making money to enjoying it and they choose to do so in nice cars and are trying to get educated on how to drive them... more power to them! I have taught a few folks like that on track... some good, some just want to drag race from corner to corner, I tell them to go home and not to come back until they really actually WANT TO LEARN TO DRIVE! YMMV!

IWalker said:

What I meant regarding citizenship...is that citizenship likely has nothing to do with audiophile tendencies. It's like trying to measure IQ by height. Sure, you can run studies, and come up with some answer, like...6'5" guys are smarter than everyone else, but there's no causality, so it's a misleading statistic. See what I mean? Didn't mean to come off as unfriendly, if I did! I appreciate the sentiment, just can't bring myself to generalize about a group as diverse as americans, or "everybody else." How much does a German audiophile have in common with one from Singapore, or Brazil...probably no more or no less than they do with their american counterparts. Hope that was more helpful regarding my position

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I think you may be right... plunking people in groups may not be the smartest thing to do. And no way... you're never "not nice" to me. We're pally-wallys!

Joey

theWB said:

I'm in complete agreement with that statement!

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LOL!

I mean... me too!

Joey_V said:

.
Also, I think another issue is space. There is a lack of living space in a place like Bagkok, Singapore, or the Philippines and they can't accomodate full HT setups like most of us can, thus they tend to shy away from HT and remain 2ch.

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I wouldn't say that's quite true, Joey. Video is a pretty big thing over here and I would say there are more serious video fans than hi-end audio enthusiasts. Having said that, most of us who have elaborate HT setups are orignially audio people since it is just a small step from audio into video. I guess a good example is myself.

Living space in Singapore is not a problem. I have a 16' x 23' dedicated room in my public housing flat and this is not an exception. But I know that Hkong generally is quite packed.

By the way, Jim Powers can probably tell you that their Singapore dealer has the highest sales in all Asia and has a ML plaque to prove it. What does that tell us?

benleeys said:

By the way, Jim Powers can probably tell you that their Singapore dealer has the highest sales in all Asia and has a ML plaque to prove it. What does that tell us?

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Ah, statistics to back up Joey's question. :rocker: