building a new pc

I know this an audio forum but considering we are all using a pc to get here I thought this question might be ok. I have been using a laptop thats about 5 years old but works great. I can burn dvd's, get my email, download music, basically everything I need. However when I built my house I wired vga cables to the plasma tv's incase I ever wanted to install a pc. My thoughts are it would be nice to have a wireless keyboard and sit on the couch every now and then to search for things and whatever else.

After thinking about my options I thought it would be nice to build my own. I already have a windows xp disc I would use for the operating system. Do I basically buy a tower with a built in power supply, motherboard, hard drive, ram chips, and dvd burner? I have swapped out drives in other desktops and found it to be very simple. Do I just buy this stuff, put it together and then install XP, or am I missing something?

BTW I dont plan on using it for games.

Building your own PC isn't that big of a deal, but its not trivial either. My primary concern is that you haven't built one before, though. But if you're willing to use it as a leaning experience, are prepared to be meticulous, and realize that you'll probably rebuild, reconnect, and/or reinstall XP more that once, go for it.

Another option that I've used before (and I've been in computers for almost 40 years) is to go through a local computer shop. You can have them put together the system and do the installation for you, and it would probably cost you in the $75 to $150 range. You could also use them as a consultant on the components and let them get them for you, or get them yourself.

There are lots of good online resources that will walk you through all the necessary steps to building your own PC. I started a few years back, and with zero experience, I was able to research, order, and put together a really nice PC (for its time). The build wasnt that bad. You just have to be careful. It took me maybe 2 hours to put the whole thing together?

Its definitely the way to go. Rather than buy prebuilt "junk", you can get what you want and need, and its fun to tinker with. Go for it!

I was thinking of something with one of the new higher end chips, around 1gb of ram, 300-500gb hard drive. My laptop has only 20gb and I need more space.

Start at 2gb of ram. Microsoft Vista is a resource hog. 2gb of ram won't run you much more money. Also, make sure your mobo and processor can handle 4gb of ram. It won't be too long before that will be standard.

Build, Tune, Customize

I figured with my background, it was necessary for me to hit you with some knowledge, as White Goodman says.

The first place to start looking is here

http://www.newegg.com another place to douple check pricing is at

http://www.tigerdirect.com although, from my experience, newegg has always been cheaper....plus their customer service is PHENOMENAL!!!! Shipping is very cheap, if not free, and always super quick. I have placed orders on monday and had products delivered on wednesday...for free! sometimes!

Now.... on to the fun stuff.

I've been building pcs since I was in middle school.... the first system I did, I do admit I got held up on the jumpers to the motherboard, but after some fiddling all was put together....anywhos..

Just recently I was putting together a nice upgrade system for around 1---, give or take betweek 1k and 1500k.

Heres the breakdown of main components, and like you said this is not for gaming, this machine is powerful enough to handle anything you throw at it, the graphix card is not made especially for gaming, but all gx cards are nowadays.... it will be able to handle HD footage quite nicely though, which I believe is much more important.

CPU

Amd Athlon X2 (socket AM2 is the newest socket type, and will be for a while)
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103771


ASUS Motherboard Crosshair for AM2 socket
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131013


CORSAIR XMS2 DOMINATOR 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145168


500gig Hard Drive Sata 3.0gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148136


Maudio Firewire sound card.... in recording world well known device, transltates well to our world as fantastic audio reproducer, no loss of quality....and balanced inputs and outputs.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829121113


Good Video Card...nice amount of video memory, will easily handle HD footage
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150209


Now this setup right here *combo deal gets you -70$ with motherboard and processor* is roughly around 1200$ the only other things you need is a case and power supply, which you can find together and in combo deals...the other thing I left out is a dvd burner, which can be had for 30-40$... so all said and done, easily under 1500-1600$ put together by some computer place. This machine I promise you would last you for many years, its put together with some of the highest quality parts, and especially where it counts most.

I used to work at a best buy where they had the "top of the line shit" and their computers sucked. They had this "gaming machine" stacked with loads of junk and ram etc and mine at home had 1/4th the stuff this one had but because my parts were of much higher quality and performance it still way outperformed their super power machine. Keep that in mind with computers, big name manufacturers tend to use proprietary parts which always end up sucking since it saves them money....and those companies that use good parts charge your life for them ie alienware....

So take this system into account and if you have any questions please let me know.... by the way - this is almost exactly the specs i've been looking at for an upgraded editing system....

Happy Holidays as well.


Peace

Mac Mini 1.83 Ghz intel core duo, 1 GB RAM 80 GB HD + wireless keyboard and mouse: $975
(comes with remote control and DVI to VGA adapter, too; free shipping from apple in 24 hrs)
LaCie 640 GB big disk: $320

or LaCie 500 GB HD $ 270, see pic below

problem solved.

http://www.apple.com/macmini/

Building a PC is great! Best way to go by a mile for a PC. I've been building my own for both work and home for 15 years now. The first one might be a little rough, but its well worth it!

Newegg is great. I use them frequently for my purchases. I'd also suggest doing some reading at http://www.tomshardware.com for more detailed info. It can be a bit daunting to read that site if you aren't a computer geek, but it has some GREAT info.

Its great you have an XP disc. I'd hold off on vista, let others guinea pig it.

And lugano, posting apple stuff in a thread specifically about building a PC is dangerously close to trolling! I know you love apple, but not everyone wants an apple. Apple vs PC threads are great, but I don't think you should turn a PC thread into an apple vs PC thread.

discocarp said:

And lugano, posting apple stuff in a thread specifically about building a PC is dangerously close to trolling! I know you love apple, but not everyone wants an apple. Apple vs PC threads are great, but I don't think you should turn a PC thread into an apple vs PC thread.

Click to expand...

The original poster said "However when I built my house I wired vga cables to the plasma tv's incase I ever wanted to install a pc. My thoughts are it would be nice to have a wireless keyboard and sit on the couch every now and then to search for things and whatever else. "



pc for me means Personal Computer. The brand is not important, it's important what you want to do with it: personal stuff. With solutions proposed by HopelessDFilms around $1500-$1600, I offered a different point of view with less money and without the hassle of DIY, a solution working great right out of the box. I never said my solution was better, I never said that DIY, roll-your-own pc sux, I did not say that OS X is better, I just said there is a different possible road, which could satisfy the OP's needs.

The original poster said he has an original XP system disk. He can install XP on a Macintosh without problems, and use the computer 100% in a Windows environment, if he feels like, but at the same time he has the opportunity of trying out something else. For me, this is not trolling, it's problem solving, but if the OP and other members think that I'm trolling, I'll refrain from posting on this forum anymore.

lugano said:

The original poster said he has an original XP system disk. He can install XP on a Macintosh without problems, and use the computer 100% in a Windows environment, if he feels like, but at the same time he has the opportunity of trying out something else. For me, this is not trolling, it's problem solving, but if the OP and other members think that I'm trolling, I'll refrain from posting on this forum anymore.

Click to expand...

I apologize lugano, I know you weren't trolling. I know, 100%, that was not your intent. It was not my intention to accuse you of trolling. It was a poor choice of words. I used the phrase "dangerously close to trolling" because of how many times I've seen the PC vs Apple debate devolve into flame wars. I was, in no way whatsoever, intending to accuse you. I've seen enough of your posts to know you are a great poster that happens to be a die hard apple fan.

I still stand by the point though as aerius specifically stated he wanted to build his own PC.

Let me tell you a secret. I am not an apple fan.

I am a life fan. I love to live my life without problems, hassles, without time spent doing the dishes instead of eating, with more time spent in the car than under it and without time spent to reinstall, reformat, restart instead of having fun. It just happens that Apple's philosophy and product matches more this path than anything else I've tried, AFAIK.

That's why, after 6 Hondas, my next car will be a Honda, that's why, after more than 500 Apple computers I had to deal with, my next computer will be a Mac, that's why I only wear Lacoste shirts etc etc. The only thing driving me is maximum return on my financial investment and, more than that, on my time investment. Time left is the only resource I can't improve, therefore I look at it as being very precious and I try to do my best to extract all and everything from it.

Once upon a time I had a lot of time, and it made fun spending countless hours to hack a Mac in ResEdit and MacsBug to fine tune it. Nowadays I only want performance, right away and without further involvement on my side. Plug in, turn on, enjoy, if it does not strictly follow this pattern, trash it and get something else. Of course, everything needs some maintenance now and then: ML panels need vacuuming, my environment needs it too, shirts need ironing and macs might need some sbin/fsck -fy from time to time. But the central point of my philosophy is to maximize time spent having fun, and the objects that surround me, from the Nespresso machine to the Weber grill, from the Macs to cars, everything follows this pattern.

It might be your way of seeing things or it might not, but I'm explaining and exposing it, because it's the result of some intensive brainstorming and accumulated experience over the years which happens to be an important part of what I am and think, and the best thing I can do is to offer an alternate point of view I know wery well - mine. IMHO that's what forums are about - sharing your view on things.

The old-school computer engineer and Windows programmer
will now testify.

15 years ago, building your own PC was a no-brainer for
economic reasons. I never bought new because I could
better IBM's (or Gateway's, AST's, Compac's, etc) speed
and reliability for roughly half the cost. The catch was that
you had to be savvy with DIP switches, flashing BIOS, and
other nerd topics. You could waste a couple days on the
project, but it was clearly worth the effort.

The exact opposite it true 15 years later. Only people seeking
extreme performance with few price considerations build
their own PC. It's become a hobby unto itself, as shown by
the "case modder" and "liquid cooling" fads.

Sure you can roll your own PC, but other than the feeling
of accomplishment it's just not worth the time and frustration.
You can't build a significantly faster or more reliable PC than
Dell (or other companies) for what they charge. Buying a
case, parts, and software seperately exceeds the complete
deals they offer. $500 gets you something good enough for
email, web browsing, word processing, etc. while $1500
to $2000 gets you a top-shelf CAD/gaming system.

Ignoring economics, the big headache is no longer flipping
DIP switches and wrestling with too-short ribbon cables.
Now it's the bloody device drivers. A motherboard
loaded with features like USB, Firewire, audio, LAN, etc
requires a scad of Windows device drivers. If you buy a
motherboard which is anywhere close to cutting edge
technology, I can guarantee that some features will be
disabled for months while the drivers are being written.
Worse, you may have stability problems (crashes) because
a kernel driver misbehaves. It's very frustrating because
you can't do anything but cruise the motherboard web
sites for updates. Not my idea of fun.

And don't get me started on the headaches of installing a
high-performance video card. Do yourself a favor and just
flush five one-hundred dollar bills down the toilet. At least
the pain is over with quickly.

If you do build a PC, stay away from ATI no matter what
the latest gaming hype says about their specs. ATI is one
of the least professional companies I've ever dealt with.
Unless things have changed drastically, their support is
atrocious. ATI treated me so badly that I now only buy
computers with NVIDIA cards. I've found them to be very
reliable with stable software and drivers.

Building your own PC gives you confidence to open up the
case, blow out the dust with a leaf blower, and add another
gig of RAM or a bigger hard drive. In that sense, it's good
to try it at least once. But I'd rather save money and just
buy a Dell and then invite a buddy over to show me how
to add some RAM or a SATA hard drive.

And yes, I do use a leaf blower to blow the dust out of all
my company's PCs once a year. Its works great and is a
lot quicker than lugging out a compressor and vacuum.

And yes, I built my current PC. It was last one I will ever
build. I cannot wait for the prices to drop on the new Quad
Core2 chips later this year. I will then buy a Dell with their
optional 30-inch widescreen LCD monitor. I will run XP-64
because my first impression of Vista was extremely negative.
Vista's new security paradigm in annoying impediment,
and I'm not interesting in all their transparent GUI
eye-candy. I just want to edit HD-video from a Sony HDV
camcorder which I plan to buy soon. As a developer and
Windows programmer, I dread the headaches Vista will
cause me.

lugano-

we understand your love for life. I (hopefully we) can totally understand where you are coming from...yes, you were just giving your opinion as you're allowed to do. Will you always own Martin Logans? If you always buy the same products that you feel comfortable with do you do the same with your stereo? OR does the "bug" get to you?

HSVTOOLFOOL-
I am no computer expert by any means and am not arguing but...I appreciate your opinion and expert advice. I can however say that building your own sub (IWalker) or tube pre (ME) may not the best thing to do. I can say that the experince, fun, knowledge and accomplishment is a huge part of it. Agree? So, why not help the man on building it with offering some suggestions of what not to do with warnings? Just a thought.

Hangups and Issues

I have used many products from multiple different manufacturers over the past 10 years and especially recently done multiple system upgrades as well as full setups. The products I have used have been from both camps, be it in processors (intel and amd) and graphics cards (nvidia and ati) with no issues. I do agree that if you go with the ABSOLUTE MOST TOP OF THE LINE PRODUCT there will most likely be issues with it functioning.

In my previous post, I made sure to list products that were not brand new, but have been out in the wild for some time and have been tested by many other people *check the customer reviews on newegg* as well as by myself.

As far as ATI is concerned, I have never had an issue with them before in the past 10 years. I have also used Nvidia based cards, but felt that my $ was better spent with ATI *price vs performance* In one of my setups I have a much older, (5 years old now) Ati Radeon 9800 128mb video card. On this setup I have been able to do editing of HD video, viewing of HD footage, and if gaming was an issue, play FEAR a fairly new and heavy power hungry game, all at very VERY acceptable performance. This is with a 5 year old card....128mb video memory where most cards today are at LEAST 256mb if not 512mb dedicated memory to video.

The bottom line is that either camp will provide a very good video card to use, be it Nvidia or ATI. The big thing to consider is which company is producing this card if it is a 3rd party piece. ATI and NVIDIA produce their own cards (for lots of $$$) and then 3rd party companies produce the same video cards with the same chipsets and just a different look or different cooling etc. This is where complications usually arise. Some brands that are very respectable are ASUS, XFX, and BFG for third party producers.

Since you have xp you are already set. Now with Vistas appearance, there will be many hackers targeting this new OS especially since it is being so well received....(apparently in much quicker success than XP was)

Although the previous setup I posted was around 1500 all said and done, it can easily be had for under 1000, with slight changes. I can also help walk you through most of the install, if not all of it. It is alot simpler than you think.

If you have any questions or comments please let me know.... if you would like I could also go through the setup again and put one together for cheaper and in full order, every single piece needed....

I was going to post to this thread, but unlike Lugano, I WOULD have been unabashedly trolling with extreme prejudice, so I refrained...

But Lugano is right. Everyone else needs to just back off and cool their jets. Just because he came up with a more elegant, more cost-effective, and more user-friendly solution is no reason to flame him.

Methinks they do protest to much.

--Richard

Thanks everyone for all the idea's please keep them coming. I will spend more time with this thread tomorrow when I have more time but now I am in the middle of getting the house ready for company. Of course, Lugano knows his input and suggestions are always valued and welcomed to any one of my threads.

This thread got me out of my procrastination mode.

I have started the brain-work on a new PC that will be strictly used as an audio source in my in-progress 2 ch. rig. It will only need to stream and play FLAC files from my other machine so it wont be the latest fastest and highest tech. stuff, but it will serve its purpose.

I am eyeing the Atech. Mini-Client 2500 case right now. http://www.atechfabrication.com/products/mini_client_2500.htm

Anyone know of a similar design that is a bit cheaper? I dont need any knobs, readouts, or card slots or ports on the front. Just a nice clean design. I would also need an option to passively cool the CPU. No fans will be allowed. I am also looking into HDD options....these new solid state storage solutions might be the expensive ticket to a truly silent PC.

Let us build!!

jtwrace said:

I can say that the experince, fun, knowledge and accomplishment is a huge part of it. Agree?

Click to expand...

Certainly. As I said, custom PC building has become a
hobby unto itself. I especially like the people stuffing
mini-ATX boards into unique cases like old toasters,
cigar boxes, ceramic piggy banks, old NES cases, etc.

So, why not help the man on building it with offering some suggestions of what not to do with warnings? Just a thought.

Click to expand...

I believe I did that. To be safe, I'll repeat my warning.

As I understand his post, he wants a small, cheap, reliable
web PC for his theater. He didn't express interest in entering
the PC-modder and over-clocking hobby. So the best solution
is a $500 Dell (or whatever) with a warranty and support.
If you don't need a monitor, you can get one even cheaper.
My main point is that it's a myth that you DIY a PC cheaper
than you can buy. Those days are long gone.

And if a Mac-mini is cost-competitive at $600 msrp, he
might indeed consider that route. I don't know if it has
a DVI output compatible with your plasma.

I recommend against it, but if you really want to get into
the roll-your-own PC hobby...

#1) Do lots of reading on the web. Motherboard makers
and tech/hobby web sites should have how-to docs which
are a good start.

#2) I can't recommend a specific motherboard model. The
market changes too quickly. 10 years ago there were only
four brands. Now there are dozens of brands and I can't
keep up. I've been burned by VIA, ASUS, and... I can't
recall the other one. Although Intel's performance specs
are usually slightly lower, I'd probably use one of theirs
because they have a reputation of stable device drivers
and greater compatiblity with most video cards.

#3) Video: For low-cost, get a m-board with built in video.
Fine for web browsing.

#4) Hard drive: use SATA (serial ATA). I don't even know
if anyone still makes older ATA drives. Probably only DVD
drives use ribbon cables any more. SCSI is expensive.

#5) Memory: 1GB is fine for XP. You can add another Gig
if you want to upgrade to Vista. But I'd only do that if you
use a Core2 Duo processor.

#6) Processor: Core2 Duo is lower wattage with highest
performance. P4 and AMD equvalents are fine for web
browsing and are cheaper.

#7) Since this is a media PC which will be on your LAN,
I wouldn't install a DVD or floppy drive. Just borrow one
and temporarily use it to install XP. After the OS and
such is on the hard drive, pull the DVD drive.

For a media PC, you might consider researching mini-ATX
and mini-ITX motherboards. They come with the CPU
installed and a quite small and quite. I have no experience
with reliability however.

HsvToolFool said:

Certainly. As I said, custom PC building has become a
hobby unto itself. I especially like the people stuffing
mini-ATX boards into unique cases like old toasters,
cigar boxes, ceramic piggy banks, old NES cases, etc.



I believe I did that. To be safe, I'll repeat my warning.

As I understand his post, he wants a small, cheap, reliable
web PC for his theater. He didn't express interest in entering
the PC-modder and over-clocking hobby. So the best solution
is a $500 Dell (or whatever) with a warranty and support.
If you don't need a monitor, you can get one even cheaper.
My main point is that it's a myth that you DIY a PC cheaper
than you can buy. Those days are long gone.

And if a Mac-mini is cost-competitive at $600 msrp, he
might indeed consider that route. I don't know if it has
a DVI output compatible with your plasma.

I recommend against it, but if you really want to get into
the roll-your-own PC hobby...

#1) Do lots of reading on the web. Motherboard makers
and tech/hobby web sites should have how-to docs which
are a good start.

#2) I can't recommend a specific motherboard model. The
market changes too quickly. 10 years ago there were only
four brands. Now there are dozens of brands and I can't
keep up. I've been burned by VIA, ASUS, and... I can't
recall the other one. Although Intel's performance specs
are usually slightly lower, I'd probably use one of theirs
because they have a reputation of stable device drivers
and greater compatiblity with most video cards.

#3) Video: For low-cost, get a m-board with built in video.
Fine for web browsing.

#4) Hard drive: use SATA (serial ATA). I don't even know
if anyone still makes older ATA drives. Probably only DVD
drives use ribbon cables any more. SCSI is expensive.

#5) Memory: 1GB is fine for XP. You can add another Gig
if you want to upgrade to Vista. But I'd only do that if you
use a Core2 Duo processor.

#6) Processor: Core2 Duo is lower wattage with highest
performance. P4 and AMD equvalents are fine for web
browsing and are cheaper.

#7) Since this is a media PC which will be on your LAN,
I wouldn't install a DVD or floppy drive. Just borrow one
and temporarily use it to install XP. After the OS and
such is on the hard drive, pull the DVD drive.

For a media PC, you might consider researching mini-ATX
and mini-ITX motherboards. They come with the CPU
installed and a quite small and quite. I have no experience
with reliability however.

Click to expand...

Great Job!!!

HopelessDFilms said:

...So take this system into account and if you have any questions please let me know.... by the way - this is almost exactly the specs i've been looking at for an upgraded editing system....

Happy Holidays as well.


Peace

Click to expand...

Totally second this set of recommended components, and would suggest the Antec P180 case if a tower box is suited to your needs. It's extreemly quiet, I should know, as both my HTPC and Office PC's are built on that chassis.

Building is fun and educational. Maybe not the cheapest, but definetly can give better performance if the right combo's are obtained.

For some acoustic performance is key (it is for me), so being able to pick the quietest case and fans is big plus. Can't do that with pre-made.