Using a CIAudio VDA-2 DAC with a Squeezebox

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kcl

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I finally decided to move into the 21st century and give digital music a try. So I picked up a Slim Device's Squeezebox 3, liked what I could easily accomplish, and added it into my overall system upgrade (chronicled in other threads).

For those not familiar with it, the SB3 connects to your local LAN (either wireless or wired) and plays songs stored on a music server. Its output is either analog left and right, optical digital, or digital coax. (Its really simple and pretty sweet, actually. It took me something like 10 minutes to unbox and have it up and running.)

The only real weak point of the SB3 is that, even given a high-quality digital source, at $300 its internal DACs aren't really up to audiophile levels. The solution, of course, is to route the digital out through a more capable external processor. So I fugured that I would use my new Sunfire TGP-5 preprocessor. But then Jeff Zaret decided he didn't need his CIAudio VDA-2 DAC with his new transport, so I decided to give that a try (it also came with the CIAudio VAC-1 high-current power supply).

I am very glad that I did. Even though the TGP-5 does a much better job of processing than the SB3, the VDA-2 is even better. In fact, I was surprised at how much better it was. I was able to set up an A/B test between the two, and the DAC gave perceptibly more depth and detail to the music. A good example was when we were listening to one of the Barb Jungr "Studio Master" downloads from Linn Records. Using the TGP, you could tell when a harmonica came in that it was somewhere behind and to the right of the singer. With the VDA-2, however, its position became certain. Suddenly, you could point to a specific spot and say "the harmonica is right there". It was pretty neat.

Bottom line, I can highly recommend the Squeezebox with the CIAudio VDA-2 / VAC-1 as an external DAC.
 
That's pretty cool!

I have one question. Why did you choose the external DAC route over the transporter? I'll be making this same decision shortly! I love my squeezebox!
 
That's pretty cool!

I have one question. Why did you choose the external DAC route over the transporter? I'll be making this same decision shortly! I love my squeezebox!
I know what you mean, as I went through the same evaluation process. I really wanted to decide on the Transporter, too. Its a great looking piece of equipment and seems to be excellently designed and constructed well. But in the end I picked the SB3 for a number of reasons.

An obvious one is cost, as a Transporter is $2000 and the Squeezebox is only $300. You can get really good DACs (probably as good or better than the Transporter) in the $500 to $1000 range, and that's still quite a bit of price difference. Heck, the VDA-2 and VAC-1 are $600 and $160 new, and as you can tell I think they're fabulous.

Another one is separation of function. Its like pre-pro/amp separates vs. a receiver. A receiver almost always involves compromises, whereas separates are focused on the best performance of specific, well-defined functions. The separation also allows you to mix and match as required to suit your particular requirements.

Finally, I wasn't sure if I was going to be satisfied with a digital music system. If it didn't work out, I wanted something that I wouldn't lose much on if I sold them. I only picked up the VDA-2 from Jeff (by the way, thanks Jeff!) because it became available from someone who's choice and care of equipment I trusted (and got a good price, of course ;) ).
 
I know what you mean, as I went through the same evaluation process. I really wanted to decide on the Transporter, too. Its a great looking piece of equipment and seems to be excellently designed and constructed well. But in the end I picked the SB3 for a number of reasons.

An obvious one is cost, as a Transporter is $2000 and the Squeezebox is only $300. You can get really good DACs (probably as good or better than the Transporter) in the $500 to $1000 range, and that's still quite a bit of price difference. Heck, the VDA-2 and VAC-1 are $600 and $160 new, and as you can tell I think they're fabulous.

Only thing that concerns me is jitter... the Transporter has a lot less jitter than the SB3... however, that said, the folks at SlimDevices acknowledged that they could not hear a difference between the two products when run through an external DAC.

BTW, cool impression/review Ken! If we could only hear what my upcoming DAC vs the VDA2.... that would be a cool comparo!

Joey :)
 
That's interesting, and I certainly appreciate your reasoning. For me, the integrated nature of the transporter is a selling point. I'm starting up a stereo listening room from scratch (not mixing it with the HT). I already have a squeezebox (2 actually :p) so I know I love it. With the transporter, I can not buy a DAC *and* not buy a pre since it has line level attenuation jumpers, and buy a pre sometime down the road. That's a big savings! I'm leaning towards the transporter, but I am struggling with the decision for a lot of the reasons you described.
 
Ken,
You are welcome. I am so glad you really like it. I hated to get rid of it but it seemed pointless to keep it with the Krell. I am glad I could pass on a great piece of equipment to someone else here on the board who really appreciates it.

Now if I could only sell my other stuff.:eek:

Did you try it yet with the digital coax? I would be curious what think then. :D

Jeff:cool:
 
That's interesting, and I certainly appreciate your reasoning. For me, the integrated nature of the transporter is a selling point. I'm starting up a stereo listening room from scratch (not mixing it with the HT). I already have a squeezebox (2 actually :p) so I know I love it. With the transporter, I can not buy a DAC *and* not buy a pre since it has line level attenuation jumpers, and buy a pre sometime down the road. That's a big savings! I'm leaning towards the transporter, but I am struggling with the decision for a lot of the reasons you described.

That's the thing disco.. by spending more on the Transporter and not necessarily being in a financial position to choose how you want your system to sound is a negative to a lot of people. The transporter may have a good DAC, but I doubt it's among the better ones.... I've heard people compare the transporter to a stock squeezebox and the sound they heard was just slightly better off the transporter.

Also, the preamp in the transporter is not up to what you are getting - the Summits, and I can guarantee you that.

It's probably best, if you want something a little more sophisticated, to get the Sonos system, spend the rest on a $1-2K DAC or a CDP with digital inputs like the Cary 303/200 or 306/200 or the 306SACD and then hook the music server to that and kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
 
And that's why I'm struggling with the decision. The lack of a preamp would be a temporary thing, to save a little short term. I'm not really interested in the Sonos at all. I'm a huge fan of the open source slim is doing with their server software. Unless logitech dumps that, I'm sold on slim.

For me, I think its a decision of DAC+preamp+existing squeezebox or a transporter.
 
The transporter may have a good DAC, but I doubt it's among the better ones.... I've heard people compare the transporter to a stock squeezebox and the sound they heard was just slightly better off the transporter.
I'd agree that if "among the better ones" you mean a $2k DAC, but while researching these I found a lot of folks that said the DACs in the transporter were quite good. As to "slightly better" than the the SB3, I got just the opposite impression. I've read some of the discussion the CEO and lead designer has participated in, and I was pretty impressed with the overall approach and design. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever felt that way that didn't have good enough equipment to hear the difference in quality.
 
I'd agree that if "among the better ones" you mean a $2k DAC, but while researching these I found a lot of folks that said the DACs in the transporter were quite good. As to "slightly better" than the the SB3, I got just the opposite impression. I've read some of the discussion the CEO and lead designer has participated in, and I was pretty impressed with the overall approach and design. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever felt that way that didn't have good enough equipment to hear the difference in quality.

You may be right, Ken. But I got my "impressions" from the early reviews of the Transporter, as you might remember, I was on the boat to go Transporter for a while there.... and I still hunger for it sometimes.

I remember reading several impressions from the SlimDevices forum that the Transporter seemed to have added air and improved on certain aspects of the SB3, but no one said anything about being blown away or anything in comparison. It's hard for me to be sure about this because it's not my ears I'm relying on, it's hearsay.... so until I can get my ears and paws on a Transporter, take what I said/say about it with a pail of salt.

Joey
 
It's hard for me to be sure about this because it's not my ears I'm relying on, it's hearsay.... so until I can get my ears and paws on a Transporter, take what I said/say about it with a pail of salt.
Its hard for me to say anything against that, as I made the same kind of decision when I decided against the transporter and went with an external DAC myself. I know what an excellent DAC can do, but not the transporter. So I guess I agree with you. :p
 
Its hard for me to say anything against that, as I made the same kind of decision when I decided against the transporter and went with an external DAC myself. I know what an excellent DAC can do, but not the transporter. So I guess I agree with you. :p

Ken,
In a way, we're both useless at evaluating the Transporter! LOL!! :D
 
LOL! I think I'm in a similar boat. I have no idea what any of this will sound like when I'm done!
 
The real question is: What about getting the Transporter and a High-End DAC? Would the Transporter give you a better digital signal (less jitter, etc.) to send to the DAC than the Squeezebox? Or would it just be a big waste of money? Does anyone do mods on either the Squeezebox or the Transporter to make them more audiophile-friendly? Just curious.
 
The real question is: What about getting the Transporter and a High-End DAC? Would the Transporter give you a better digital signal (less jitter, etc.) to send to the DAC than the Squeezebox? Or would it just be a big waste of money? Does anyone do mods on either the Squeezebox or the Transporter to make them more audiophile-friendly? Just curious.

IMHO, Transporter PLUS outboard DAC would be a waste of $, however, at least one outfit *IS* offering Transporter mods, but most are not. I recall Dan Wright offering to look into it if somebody sends him one, but what he's seen of the design, there's not much need. Lot's of folks offering various Squeezebox 2/3 mods (Red Wine, Bolder, others). Lot's more discussion about this on Slim Forums, or Audiocircle.
 
Does anyone do mods on either the Squeezebox or the Transporter to make them more audiophile-friendly? Just curious.
The folks who I'm having mod my Oppo DV970HD, Reference Audio Mods, has modifications for the Transporter (but not the Squeezebox). Its not cheap, though. If you follow the link on the page you'll see that their upgrades will run you either $595, $995, or $1395, which is pretty significant on a $2000 piece if equipment.
 
The real question is: What about getting the Transporter and a High-End DAC? Would the Transporter give you a better digital signal (less jitter, etc.) to send to the DAC than the Squeezebox? Or would it just be a big waste of money? Does anyone do mods on either the Squeezebox or the Transporter to make them more audiophile-friendly? Just curious.

Some say the decreased jitter would improve it... who knows...

All I know is that if you had the money and you didnt care, the best combo would probably be the Transporter and then to something like a Meitner EMM Labs CDSA CDP/DAC combo....

Then again, I'm poor... so I go with what I can. :(
 
That would be interesting to see indeed.

The VDA-2 locks on to the master clock, so the better the clock the better the result. The Transporter could be an improvement, therefore.

Any DAC, even the reclocking ones, will benefit from a better master clock. Once the jitter is in the bitstream a DAC can only reclock the jitter.

There are modders especially for the Squeezebox. For instance, Wayne of boldercables.com.

However, when I read posts of his devoted customers (disciples?) re. the $700 Ultimate poser supply with bybees and Nitro ueber cables for the Squeezebox, I can't help marveling at the powers of auto-suggestion.
 
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