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Thread: New to forum and to ML

  1. #1
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    Default New to forum and to ML

    Hello everyone,

    I am new to this forum and also a new owner of Martin Logan. I had been trying to figure out which system would work best for me for the past 4 years. Have quite a few friends with home theaters with setup ranging from Klipsch to Episode to Monitor to Def Tech.

    For a very long time, i thought I always wanted Def tech. And I was very close to buying them when I went to Nebraska Furniture Mart about 8 months ago to listen to Def Tech one last time before I pull the plug. And the technician there made me listen to Martin Logan. Lo Behold, it was love at first sound! I am technically challenged, so I couldn't pinpoint what the difference was, but my god- it sounded sweet. And the technician was kind enough to pamper me for 1 hour basically going back and forth between Def Tech and ML. While I have made a decision on ML right there and then - I wanted to be extremely sure- so I tested ML's in various settings - friends, magnolia, other music stores etc. Finally, i broke my virginity with the below setup

    Motion 40 - L/R
    Motion 30 - Center
    ML 80 i In-ceiling
    Pioneer SC LX 801 receiver

    No amps yet(which is where I will need help from this forum)

    But nice to be among the ML owners.
    Last edited by pfc_om; 02-11-2018 at 03:48 PM.
     

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    Congrats I love my Motion set up. My amp is a Yamaha Aventage and it runs things well (I set it to 6ohm and bi-wired the speakers) If you have the budget look into a receiver thats stable at lower resistances.
    What sub do you run?

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    Thank you, Ajaans

    Is Yamaha Aventage your Receiver or amp? The receiver that I bought is 2k :-). Anything wrong with them?

    I am using a Dynamo 500 sub.

    I have a problem with them though..they are creating a lot of bass and my neighbor is complaining. Though we live in a single-family home and we don't even share a common wall. What is it that i am doing wrong that he is able to hear the bass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pfc_om View Post
    ...
    Pioneer SC LX 801 receiver

    No amps yet(which is where I will need help from this forum)

    But nice to be among the ML owners.
    Hi

    No need for an external amp with that receiver and speaker pairing unless you plan to play at really crazy volumes. And then, only for the two front L/R speakers. I'd say live with it for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by pfc_om View Post
    ... I have a problem with them though..they are creating a lot of bass and my neighbor is complaining. Though we live in a single-family home and we don't even share a common wall. What is it that i am doing wrong that he is able to hear the bass.
    That is likely due to a resonance in the structure itself replicating some of the output of your sub. It might be mitigated if you have the sub located in a different place. Also, have you run MCACC Pro on the Pioneer yet? That might smooth out the low end and reduce the effect.

    Bass travels, so watching your levels is about the only way of mitigating that after the fact. Your setup is new, and you are probably cranking it to enjoy it, but pretty soon, your ears will convince you its time to dial it back a bit.

    If you want more physical sensations of bass during movies, then look into the various makes of Tactile Transducers. Putting a ButtKicker on a couch allows many to turn their subs down to acceptable levels and still get the kick in the pants feel that makes certain action movies so much fun.
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

  5. #5
    Newbie Ajaans's Avatar
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    Isn't ****ing off the neighbors the point?

    I just run the Yamaha AVR, no separated amp.

    That's a pretty nice sub, try moving it away from the wall and messing with the adjustments, I actually hate when the bass is too overwhelming or boomy. You should be able to adjust that out.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
    Hi

    No need for an external amp with that receiver and speaker pairing unless you plan to play at really crazy volumes. And then, only for the two front L/R speakers. I'd say live with it for a while.



    That is likely due to a resonance in the structure itself replicating some of the output of your sub. It might be mitigated if you have the sub located in a different place. Also, have you run MCACC Pro on the Pioneer yet? That might smooth out the low end and reduce the effect.

    Bass travels, so watching your levels is about the only way of mitigating that after the fact. Your setup is new, and you are probably cranking it to enjoy it, but pretty soon, your ears will convince you its time to dial it back a bit.

    If you want more physical sensations of bass during movies, then look into the various makes of Tactile Transducers. Putting a ButtKicker on a couch allows many to turn their subs down to acceptable levels and still get the kick in the pants feel that makes certain action movies so much fun.

    Hello JonFo,

    Thanks for your inputs. I am pretty happy with what my receiver is capable of for my speakers. So currently not looking to add any amp yet. May add an amp if i plan to go 7.1.4 but that would be an overkill for my room

    As for the sub, i tried placing it in a few different spots, but the dude always complains wherever i put it or whereever my 12 ft sub woofer wire allows. Someone mentioned buying another sub which would help in nullify the bass.

    I have not done MCACC Pro. I just ran the free MCACC that comes with the speaker. You think it be a good investment to buy that?

    You seem pretty knowledgeable - can i take a pic of the back of my sub and send to verify with you to see if i haev all the parameter set correct for my sub?

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    Yeah me too..idont like boomy bass.

    I will take pics of my sub settings and post it here later today t get inputs from you folks

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    So i was finally able to get pictures of my SUB settings. Can one please take a look and let me know if these are correct? As stated above my problem is, i want a good bass- not too boomy, but i also dont want my neighbor to complain about bass being too high. I have set my sub woofer at +05.db on the receiver. The crossover from my receiver is set at 80hz and MCACC pro has set my tower speakers as small

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    Thanks, that's helpful. Right away I spot one thing to correct: the 'Crossover variable/ LFE in switch should be DOWN i.e. set for LFE in.

    Your receiver is doing the crossover, so it's feeding an LFE signal to the sub.

    You might try the phase switch on 0, then switch to 180 and see which deliver more mid-bass (not not super low bass, mid-bass around 80 to 100Hz), then leave it set for that. You are trying to match the sub to your mains so they blend smoothly through the crossover region.

    My guess is that since you had doubled-up corssovers, you had a gap in bass around 60 to 120Hz, so the bass frequencies below that were goosed so you would have some bass.

    Once you change the LFE switch and pick 0 or 180 on phase, then re-do the MCACC.
    Last edited by JonFo; 02-17-2018 at 10:30 AM.
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
    You might try the phase switch on 0, then switch to 180 and see which deliver more mid-bass (not not super low bass, mid-bass around 80 to 100Hz), then leave it set for that. You are trying to match the sub to your mains so they blend smoothly through the crossover region.
    Thank you very much Jon. I will try this today itself. I have a followup question on your response above - you mention to phase switch 0 and then switch to 180 and find which delivers more/better mid-bass. But how would i know apart from listening sensibilities? Is there somewhere where i need to look at - certain parameters within the receiver which would tell me where do i get good mid-range bass either on phase switch 0 or 180

    And while i have you here - please pick one for my surround sounds -

    Motion FX or Motion lx 16

    Current setup is 5.1.2 - i have four in-ceiling with two acting as atmos. But i want to add two surround at the back-wall(closed room- similar to your room fro your photos of your theater) and make the in-ceiling ones as atmos. Making it 5.1.4
    Last edited by pfc_om; 02-17-2018 at 10:54 AM.

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    I highly recommend the StudioSix Digital audio tools for your iPhone as the best tool for monitoring tests like I recommend.

    Use something like the low-end (20 - 200Hz) sweep form here http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_index.php

    As it goes through 80 to 100, look at the SPL level, and set the phase for the one that has the higher SPL.

    Regarding the rear wall speakers, that would be for a 7.1.2 setup, no?

    If looking for a 5.1.4 Atmos, the extra 2 need to be on the ceiling. Where are the 34 ceiling speakers today?
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

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    Jon,

    Thank you for the recommendation. It does make sense now. For the time being i will switch the phase to 0 and see if there is any difference. If not, i will use the apps you recemmonded to test.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
    Regarding the rear wall speakers, that would be for a 7.1.2 setup, no?

    If looking for a 5.1.4 Atmos, the extra 2 need to be on the ceiling. Where are the 34 ceiling speakers today?
    No - So let me explian my current speaker setup

    2 tower speakers, left and right(Motion 40)
    One subwoofer(Dynamo 500)
    One center channel(Motion 30)
    4 in-ceiling( ML 80i)

    The four in-ceilings i am using as follows

    2( left + right) are in the ceiling infront of my seating area which i have connected to height speakers channel in my receiver
    2(left +right) are in the ceiling behing my seating area which i have connected to surround channel in my receiver.

    This makes is 5.1.2 isnt it or am i wrong? :-)

    Now what i want to have

    2 Tower speakers
    One center channel
    1 sub woofer
    4 in-ceiling(2 L and 2 R) connected to my height speakers 1 and 2 channel on my receiver
    2(L+R) surround.

    Now i wanted to see if you can recommend me either Motion FX surround or LX16 for the surround(coming from behind my seating area)

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    >>This makes is 5.1.2 isnt it or am i wrong? :-)

    Ah, yes, now I get it, was thrown of by use of the 2 back ceiling units as 'surround'.

    So to go full 5.1.4, I'd recommend the LX16, as they are monopole and have deeper extension than the FX to better match your fronts. In an Atmos setup, it's better to have a direct radiator (vs dipole/bipole) speakers. Also, the height of the rears is lower than traditional 5.1 setups, more in line with the front speakers.
    They should also be out to the sides a bit and not directly behind you. See https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/do...-4-setups.html and https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/do...etup-guide.pdf
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

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    Got it Jon, thank you!

    An update -

    I Did set my sub for LFE in, and phase 0. Then I let the MCACC pro run. Well, I and my neighbor weren't happy again with it. He started texting me about bass again. So, my two other options now are

    a. Move the sub to a different location - just bought a 30 feet cable to see where else can I move my sub
    b. move the phase to 180 and run the MCACC pro

    Please help - I feel am trapped after buying these speakers and not able to enjoy them the way I want to

    But I found something interesting when I ran the MCACC pro-

    1. All my speakers were set for very low decibel. The front was at -8db and sub at -7.5 dB, rest all were almost same - is this normal?
    2. The speakers - it automatically selected each one of it as large including my in-ceiling which was weird. What was weirder was when the speakers were selected large - my sub was not recognized for any preset controls on the receiver(see attached images). The attached image was for stereo preset
    3. When I set the front to small - is when my sub is recognized by my receiver.

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