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pfc_om

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Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and also a new owner of Martin Logan. I had been trying to figure out which system would work best for me for the past 4 years. Have quite a few friends with home theaters with setup ranging from Klipsch to Episode to Monitor to Def Tech.

For a very long time, i thought I always wanted Def tech. And I was very close to buying them when I went to Nebraska Furniture Mart about 8 months ago to listen to Def Tech one last time before I pull the plug. And the technician there made me listen to Martin Logan. Lo Behold, it was love at first sound! I am technically challenged, so I couldn't pinpoint what the difference was, but my god- it sounded sweet. And the technician was kind enough to pamper me for 1 hour basically going back and forth between Def Tech and ML. While I have made a decision on ML right there and then - I wanted to be extremely sure- so I tested ML's in various settings - friends, magnolia, other music stores etc. Finally, i broke my virginity with the below setup

Motion 40 - L/R
Motion 30 - Center
ML 80 i In-ceiling
Pioneer SC LX 801 receiver

No amps yet(which is where I will need help from this forum)

But nice to be among the ML owners.
 
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Congrats I love my Motion set up. My amp is a Yamaha Aventage and it runs things well (I set it to 6ohm and bi-wired the speakers) If you have the budget look into a receiver thats stable at lower resistances.
What sub do you run?
 
Thank you, Ajaans

Is Yamaha Aventage your Receiver or amp? The receiver that I bought is 2k :). Anything wrong with them?

I am using a Dynamo 500 sub.

I have a problem with them though..they are creating a lot of bass and my neighbor is complaining. Though we live in a single-family home and we don't even share a common wall. What is it that i am doing wrong that he is able to hear the bass.
 
...
Pioneer SC LX 801 receiver

No amps yet(which is where I will need help from this forum)

But nice to be among the ML owners.

Hi :welcome:

No need for an external amp with that receiver and speaker pairing unless you plan to play at really crazy volumes. And then, only for the two front L/R speakers. I'd say live with it for a while.

... I have a problem with them though..they are creating a lot of bass and my neighbor is complaining. Though we live in a single-family home and we don't even share a common wall. What is it that i am doing wrong that he is able to hear the bass.

That is likely due to a resonance in the structure itself replicating some of the output of your sub. It might be mitigated if you have the sub located in a different place. Also, have you run MCACC Pro on the Pioneer yet? That might smooth out the low end and reduce the effect.

Bass travels, so watching your levels is about the only way of mitigating that after the fact. Your setup is new, and you are probably cranking it to enjoy it, but pretty soon, your ears will convince you its time to dial it back a bit.

If you want more physical sensations of bass during movies, then look into the various makes of Tactile Transducers. Putting a ButtKicker on a couch allows many to turn their subs down to acceptable levels and still get the kick in the pants feel that makes certain action movies so much fun.
 
Isn't ****ing off the neighbors the point? :rocker:

I just run the Yamaha AVR, no separated amp.

That's a pretty nice sub, try moving it away from the wall and messing with the adjustments, I actually hate when the bass is too overwhelming or boomy. You should be able to adjust that out.

Cheers
 
Hi :welcome:

No need for an external amp with that receiver and speaker pairing unless you plan to play at really crazy volumes. And then, only for the two front L/R speakers. I'd say live with it for a while.



That is likely due to a resonance in the structure itself replicating some of the output of your sub. It might be mitigated if you have the sub located in a different place. Also, have you run MCACC Pro on the Pioneer yet? That might smooth out the low end and reduce the effect.

Bass travels, so watching your levels is about the only way of mitigating that after the fact. Your setup is new, and you are probably cranking it to enjoy it, but pretty soon, your ears will convince you its time to dial it back a bit.

If you want more physical sensations of bass during movies, then look into the various makes of Tactile Transducers. Putting a ButtKicker on a couch allows many to turn their subs down to acceptable levels and still get the kick in the pants feel that makes certain action movies so much fun.


Hello JonFo,

Thanks for your inputs. I am pretty happy with what my receiver is capable of for my speakers. So currently not looking to add any amp yet. May add an amp if i plan to go 7.1.4 but that would be an overkill for my room

As for the sub, i tried placing it in a few different spots, but the dude always complains wherever i put it or whereever my 12 ft sub woofer wire allows. Someone mentioned buying another sub which would help in nullify the bass.

I have not done MCACC Pro. I just ran the free MCACC that comes with the speaker. You think it be a good investment to buy that?

You seem pretty knowledgeable - can i take a pic of the back of my sub and send to verify with you to see if i haev all the parameter set correct for my sub?
 
Yeah me too..idont like boomy bass.

I will take pics of my sub settings and post it here later today t get inputs from you folks
 
So i was finally able to get pictures of my SUB settings. Can one please take a look and let me know if these are correct? As stated above my problem is, i want a good bass- not too boomy, but i also dont want my neighbor to complain about bass being too high. I have set my sub woofer at +05.db on the receiver. The crossover from my receiver is set at 80hz and MCACC pro has set my tower speakers as small

Dynamo500-2.jpg
Dynamo500-1.jpg
Dynamo500.jpg
 
Thanks, that's helpful. Right away I spot one thing to correct: the 'Crossover variable/ LFE in switch should be DOWN i.e. set for LFE in.

Your receiver is doing the crossover, so it's feeding an LFE signal to the sub.

You might try the phase switch on 0, then switch to 180 and see which deliver more mid-bass (not not super low bass, mid-bass around 80 to 100Hz), then leave it set for that. You are trying to match the sub to your mains so they blend smoothly through the crossover region.

My guess is that since you had doubled-up corssovers, you had a gap in bass around 60 to 120Hz, so the bass frequencies below that were goosed so you would have some bass.

Once you change the LFE switch and pick 0 or 180 on phase, then re-do the MCACC.
 
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You might try the phase switch on 0, then switch to 180 and see which deliver more mid-bass (not not super low bass, mid-bass around 80 to 100Hz), then leave it set for that. You are trying to match the sub to your mains so they blend smoothly through the crossover region.

Thank you very much Jon. I will try this today itself. I have a followup question on your response above - you mention to phase switch 0 and then switch to 180 and find which delivers more/better mid-bass. But how would i know apart from listening sensibilities? Is there somewhere where i need to look at - certain parameters within the receiver which would tell me where do i get good mid-range bass either on phase switch 0 or 180

And while i have you here - please pick one for my surround sounds -

Motion FX or Motion lx 16

Current setup is 5.1.2 - i have four in-ceiling with two acting as atmos. But i want to add two surround at the back-wall(closed room- similar to your room fro your photos of your theater) and make the in-ceiling ones as atmos. Making it 5.1.4
 
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I highly recommend the StudioSix Digital audio tools for your iPhone as the best tool for monitoring tests like I recommend.

Use something like the low-end (20 - 200Hz) sweep form here http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_index.php

As it goes through 80 to 100, look at the SPL level, and set the phase for the one that has the higher SPL.

Regarding the rear wall speakers, that would be for a 7.1.2 setup, no?

If looking for a 5.1.4 Atmos, the extra 2 need to be on the ceiling. Where are the 34 ceiling speakers today?
 
Jon,

Thank you for the recommendation. It does make sense now. For the time being i will switch the phase to 0 and see if there is any difference. If not, i will use the apps you recemmonded to test.

Regarding the rear wall speakers, that would be for a 7.1.2 setup, no?

If looking for a 5.1.4 Atmos, the extra 2 need to be on the ceiling. Where are the 34 ceiling speakers today?

No - So let me explian my current speaker setup

2 tower speakers, left and right(Motion 40)
One subwoofer(Dynamo 500)
One center channel(Motion 30)
4 in-ceiling( ML 80i)

The four in-ceilings i am using as follows

2( left + right) are in the ceiling infront of my seating area which i have connected to height speakers channel in my receiver
2(left +right) are in the ceiling behing my seating area which i have connected to surround channel in my receiver.

This makes is 5.1.2 isnt it or am i wrong? :)

Now what i want to have

2 Tower speakers
One center channel
1 sub woofer
4 in-ceiling(2 L and 2 R) connected to my height speakers 1 and 2 channel on my receiver
2(L+R) surround.

Now i wanted to see if you can recommend me either Motion FX surround or LX16 for the surround(coming from behind my seating area)
 
>>This makes is 5.1.2 isnt it or am i wrong? :)

Ah, yes, now I get it, was thrown of by use of the 2 back ceiling units as 'surround'.

So to go full 5.1.4, I'd recommend the LX16, as they are monopole and have deeper extension than the FX to better match your fronts. In an Atmos setup, it's better to have a direct radiator (vs dipole/bipole) speakers. Also, the height of the rears is lower than traditional 5.1 setups, more in line with the front speakers.
They should also be out to the sides a bit and not directly behind you. See https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/5-1-4-setups.html and https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/5.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide.pdf
 
Got it Jon, thank you!

An update -

I Did set my sub for LFE in, and phase 0. Then I let the MCACC pro run. Well, I and my neighbor weren't happy again with it. He started texting me about bass again. So, my two other options now are

a. Move the sub to a different location - just bought a 30 feet cable to see where else can I move my sub
b. move the phase to 180 and run the MCACC pro

Please help - I feel am trapped after buying these speakers and not able to enjoy them the way I want to

But I found something interesting when I ran the MCACC pro-

1. All my speakers were set for very low decibel. The front was at -8db and sub at -7.5 dB, rest all were almost same - is this normal?
2. The speakers - it automatically selected each one of it as large including my in-ceiling which was weird. What was weirder was when the speakers were selected large - my sub was not recognized for any preset controls on the receiver(see attached images). The attached image was for stereo preset
3. When I set the front to small - is when my sub is recognized by my receiver.

Large.jpg Large C.jpg


Small.jpg Small C.jpg
 
I am not sure if it is within your budget but the next sub up in the Dynamo line is the Motion 700. It offer a wireless feature which should allow you to stick it behind the sofa or something.
Large or small speakers should refer to how deep your speakers go, from everything I have seen if your front mains don't dig down into the 20 hz range they should be set to small.
I'm sorry about your situation, it sounds like you are doing your best to be a cool neighbor.
 
Guys,

Thank you very much for all your help. I have added 2 Motion LX 16 speakers as my surround now. Attached picture. As suggested by JonFo, I have kept is to my ear level, at best. So now I have a 5.1.4 speaker system with the in-ceiling speakers plugged to Height 1and 2. making them two sets of atmos. I have also drilled some holes and after excruciating pain was able to pull a wire to have my Sub go behind me.(For my neighbor problem). The system sounds kickass now. Adding those Lx16's has an effect that I didn't believe I would. They are super awesome, hearing sounds I didn't know existed lol. Love it now. Thanks, team! So far no complaints from my neighbor. Fingers crossed

lx16.jpg
 
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How the system looks now

This is how my setup looks now. The sub-woofer is moved to the back, the tower speakers moved a little forward - away from the wall and is at an angle(after taking the pics)

ML1.jpg

ML 2.jpg

ML3.jpg

ML5.jpg

ML6.jpg
 
That is friggin sweet dude. Similar to my setup (except that sweet ass TV) I'm glad you got it all sorted out. Enjoy! What did you use to mount the LX16's? They are huge, I ended up putting them on bookshelves to make life easy haha.
Hope you get many hours of enjoyments!
 
Thanks, Ajaans.

The display you see is a 130-inch screen that i got built for $250 by a local guy. Then i manually added LED's to the back and have a motion detector where they would light up when anyone was within 5 feet of the screen(Mainly for my kid).

Hope all remains good :) But as you know we cant stay put for too long. Am already looking for the following, suggestions welcome :)

1. 3- Channel Amplifier in the range of $500-$700( I also need to understand what W/ch should I look for when I am looking for an amp to hook up through my AV receiver
2. A turntable

I used the below mounting bracket to mount my LX16's. The bracket holds load upto 30+ lbs.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X9O8SI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
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