Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 139

Thread: Is the Martin Logan brand declining?

  1. #46
    Super User roberto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Jose, Costa Rica
    Posts
    2,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    There’s Roberto! Hola, amigo. Glad to hear you are well. I saw you posting on the Conrad Johnson forum about a certain ET-7 preamp. I presume you are enjoying it. Thanks for contributing to this thread.
    Hola Rich,

    You are right! That is me at the Conrad Johnson site. I just got the new ET7 preamplifier and the Classic One Twenty SE power amp. All I can say is that it is totally different presentation of what I had previously. Of course I am in Heaven with these gear. The new DAC by Exasound with the linear power supply made by Teddy Pardo made a sinergy with the CLXs so nice and beautiful, that I am getting goosebumps and again, re-discovering my entire music. The music flows easy, with detail and tremendous dynamics. The bass is robust, but keeps the size of the bass in all strings...easy to tell the fingering at the guitar. The piano is marvellous. The clarinet and trumpet are projected with space and right timbre. The percussion is wonderfull. And now, the voices. I never had before these voices here. The female voice has an enchanted way, as an example Jacintha singing Georgia of my mind, that you should listen her singing this song as kind of reference. I have it in flash drive, and when I go to take a listen to a friends house or audiophile system, I use it as a reference...I am in love with my system and Martin Logan. ML delivers the sound very good, no matter the cost of the speakers.
    Strings are silky, and you can feel where the bow is moving. The cello is another musical instrument that shows easy the ML sound. Listen to Johanna Rose playing the Viola Da gamba: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvpU3UYtVmI
    Rich do your best and take a listen to the newer models, and tell us your findings.
    Kind regards from Costa Rica Rich!
    Roberto
     
    CLX, Stage X and Motion 4, BF-210 sub, Summits in second system. Conrad Johnson Classic One Twenty SE amp, ET-7 Conrad Johnson pre, Exasound E-32 DAC with Teddy Pardo linear power supply, Shun Mook products, Nordost and DHLabs cables. Anthem AVM-60 audio and video processor. Anthem MCA-325 center and surround power amp. BPT Signature 3.5 Plus Balanced Line Power Conditioner.

  2. #47
    Super User
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,943

    Default

    I like you guys I am hoping to get a chance to listen to the line up sometime this year. I'm just not sure where to go. I'll look around. I like to hear what's up.

  3. #48
    Super User slowGEEZR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Round Rock, TX YeeHaw!
    Posts
    2,709

    Default

    I haven't owned ML's for quite a few years now. I continued participating in this site for a couple of years after I got the Wilson's, but now I prefer sites that aren't speaker specific. Besides, my memory for ML may not be relevant to current ML owners and what's the point if I don't have anything to contribute? The purpose of a site, to me, is sharing knowledge and feel no need to rehash it. I really like the new ML's, having heard most of them at RMAF, but it's like, been there, done that.

    My system now is pretty damn nice and I am pretty darn happy with it. I typically post in various music threads, in Audio Aficionado, Audio Nirvana and Audio Shark, but rarely in their other threads. I rarely post at all in What's Best Forum, but read it from time to time, as there is a lot of experience there. I pop in here from time to time, but rarely post.
    - Steve You got fins to the left, fins to the right...Wilson WP8, Pass Labs XA-100.5, Pass Labs XP-20, BAT PK-V5, Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, TTW GEM V2, K&K Audio Premium SUT, VPI 16.5 & Keith Monks Discovery One record cleaners, MacMini (on Spatial Isoplane), JRiver, Ayre QB-9 DSD, X-CAN V-3, Sennheiser HD-535 (on Woo Audio stand), Adona Racks, SRA amp bases, PS Audio PPP, Mogami w/ Neutrik XLRs, Douglas speaker cable, GIK treatments, Shunyata Venom Defenders.

  4. #49
    Super User Rich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    4,129

    Default

    Ahhh, feels like a homecoming. I’m so glad I started this thread. Nice to see so many long-time members sharing their thoughts again. Good to hear from you Steve. Been a long time. I’ll let you know the next time I’m headed out to Austin.

    Roberto, I promise you I will take a listen to the new models before I make any decisions about upgrading my Summits. I am envious of your system with the CLX’s. I know the CJ equipment drives the panels so sweetly.

    I will say this about this forum though, guys. We are a diverse group of people with a similar interest in music and achieving wonderful sound through our hobby. It doesn’t matter that we don’t all agree on politics or on the whole objectivism vs. subjectivism debate. It doesn’t matter that we don’t all own ML’s anymore, or even that some of us may not have the enthusiasm for the brand that we once did. We can still have some great conversations about music, about any brand of speakers or other components or room treatment or the difference that audiophile fuses and window dots make, or even other hobbies that we enjoy. Ultimately, this place for me is like the bar in the t.v. show Cheers — a place where everybody knows your name (and your quirks, and the fact that you still haven’t posted your system...). But I digress. Let me just end with Merry Christmas and I love you all. Great group of people on this forum!
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  5. #50
    Super User roberto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Jose, Costa Rica
    Posts
    2,910

    Default

    Hola Chicos...Rich is right! Love you all too! Merry Xmas, and the best for this coming soon 2018!

    I wish to all a very happy listening!
    CLX, Stage X and Motion 4, BF-210 sub, Summits in second system. Conrad Johnson Classic One Twenty SE amp, ET-7 Conrad Johnson pre, Exasound E-32 DAC with Teddy Pardo linear power supply, Shun Mook products, Nordost and DHLabs cables. Anthem AVM-60 audio and video processor. Anthem MCA-325 center and surround power amp. BPT Signature 3.5 Plus Balanced Line Power Conditioner.

  6. #51
    Super User Rich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    4,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GW1800 View Post
    5. Myself I have some real good connections with many of my brands at the company level but not so much with ML. Reps and sales people yes but at corporate not so much. I do remember early on being the Kansas area and was excited to stop in but when I called I was told there was nothing there to see. You would think they would have some demo room but no. When I visited Canada a couple of years ago same thing not one ML in any of the demo rooms. They had samples but nothing working. I think part of it is there is no real person at the company that is passionate as a owner would be. When I visited I had a great tour but the person knew really nothing about ML and seemed real happy with that - how sad. Even where they are located on the company floor they are kind of jammed in a very small area. I've tried numerous times to make a connection with customer service etc. but no one seems in the least interested.
    To me, this quoted paragraph speaks volumes. This was my fear when ML changed from a small company of dedicated employees to a cog in a much larger corporate machine. It wasnít always this way. When we had the first forum get together over ten years ago and toured the factory in Lawrence, Martin Logan was a very different company. When they merged with Paradigm, fired a bunch of longtime employees, and moved production to Canada, the writing was on the wall. Certainly we have gained some great advances in design, production, and technical advances. But we have lost that passion and customer-centric focus of a smaller company driven by a founder with vision. ML speakers are still great (if a lot more expensive) but the company is just not the same. Sad, but inevitable I suppose.

    Regarding the comments about younger kids streaming music and not caring about quality, etc. ... I have to say ... as I write this, I am listening to a Jack Johnson album streaming wirelessly from Amazon Music on my IPad to a pair of Sennheiser HD1 Bluetooth on-ear headphones. And honestly, it sounds pretty d@mn good. I mean, really really good. I donít have to worry about room interactions, fussy expensive equipment, and all those other things we obsess over. And I can listen to it anywhere I want. Did I mention it sounds really good? No it doesnít give me the soundstage and imaging and goose-pimples of my main system, but it sounds just great for casual listening. Clear, detailed, good bass. Simple and effective. Yeah, Iím beginning to think audiophiles just may be a dying breed with the technological advances of modern life. The sound is excellent and the convenience is hard to beat.
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  7. #52
    Super User amey01's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    4,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    To me, this quoted paragraph speaks volumes. This was my fear when ML changed from a small company of dedicated employees to a cog in a much larger corporate machine. It wasnít always this way. When we had the first forum get together over ten years ago and toured the factory in Lawrence, Martin Logan was a very different company. When they merged with Paradigm, fired a bunch of longtime employees, and moved production to Canada, the writing was on the wall. Certainly we have gained some great advances in design, production, and technical advances. But we have lost that passion and customer-centric focus of a smaller company driven by a founder with vision. ML speakers are still great (if a lot more expensive) but the company is just not the same. Sad, but inevitable I suppose.
    I agree this is "sad", but in today's world, I see it as a positive.

    With technology, R&D, computerisation and advancements in high-end products today, you simply can't compete as a "one-man band". Companies need to share technology, parts, R&D, etc to be competitive in today's environment.

    If they don't then they'll be leap-frogged by their competitors within no more than a year.

    As audiophiles with a thriving industry, we are lucky to have choice. You can go and buy your rudimentary/low-tech speakers from Roger Sanders (a company which would no doubt end in all ways should anything happen to Roger in the future), or you can buy a high-tech "globalised" product from someone like ML.

    You pay your money, you make your choice.
    Marantz 8300 SACD / Squeezebox Touch --> Audiolab M-DAC --> Copland CTA-305 --> Classť CA-101 --> MartinLogan Vista / Behringer DEQ2496 --> Whise Profunder sub

    Click here to see my system

  8. #53
    Super User Rich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    4,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by amey01 View Post
    With technology, R&D, computerisation and advancements in high-end products today, you simply can't compete as a "one-man band". Companies need to share technology, parts, R&D, etc to be competitive in today's environment.

    If they don't then they'll be leap-frogged by their competitors within no more than a year.
    The continuing success of such companies as Soundlab, Magnepan, PS Audio, Sanders Sound, and many others completely belies this notion. You don’t have to be part of a multinational conglomerate to survive and even thrive in this industry. Oh, and most of these companies will still support every product they ever made, unlike Martin Logan. While I agree with the notion that if Roger dies, Sanders Sound will die with him. At the same time, I think it’s pretty clear that if the high end doesn’t remain profitable for ML, they will drop it in a heartbeat and end support for existing models. Either way, you take your chances.
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  9. #54
    Super User amey01's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    4,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I think it’s pretty clear that if the high end doesn’t remain profitable for ML, they will drop it in a heartbeat
    I think that is the same for every company out there. Audio or anything else.

    Profit is not a dirty word. Nobody is in business (audio or otherwise) for sh1ts and giggles.
    Marantz 8300 SACD / Squeezebox Touch --> Audiolab M-DAC --> Copland CTA-305 --> Classť CA-101 --> MartinLogan Vista / Behringer DEQ2496 --> Whise Profunder sub

    Click here to see my system

  10. #55
    Super User JonFo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Big Canoe, GA
    Posts
    3,570

    Default

    One could even point at the recent acquisition of the Harman conglomerate by the even larger Samsung conglomerate as an example of audio industry vertical integration happening. Sometimes it is needed for R&D reasons, as things get increasingly computerized, but also likely for patent portfolios.

    So having the ML brand as part of a larger group that can provide for synergies is a good thing. But I totally agree that they've pretty much lost the externally visible energy and passion of a founder. There are still some long-term, passionate employees there, but they are probably forced to live within their roles and not be 'splashy' and have lost some of their prior independence.
    It's a shame, as a publicly visible 'face' and 'voice' for the brand would be nice. Much like Kevin Voecks is for Revel at Harman. Even post acquisition, he continues to be 'the guy'.

    So ML, please think about that, and realize it's almost as much about external communications and market shaping as anything directly product related. But it can NOT be just a marketing role, that would be a huge mistake. It needs to be somebody clearly passionate about the products and how they are used.

    The fact that this thread even exists is more than ample proof you need to do something, and soon. Why would a forum of dedicated owners and fans of your products even be discussing this topic?
    Last edited by JonFo; 12-28-2017 at 04:36 AM.
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

  11. #56
    Super User Rich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    4,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
    It's a shame, as a publicly visible 'face' and 'voice' for the brand would be nice.
    ...
    So ML, please think about that, and realize it's almost as much about external communications and market shaping as anything directly product related. But it can NOT be just a marketing role, that would be a huge mistake. It needs to be somebody clearly passionate about the products and how they are used.

    The fact that this thread even exists is more than ample proof you need to do something, and soon. Why would a forum of dedicated owners and fans of your products even be discussing this topic?
    Great post, Jon. They already tried that once, putting their new marketing guy on here a few years ago, and it fell completely flat. He hasn’t been heard from since. Peter Soderburgh (sp?) also used to post and he is much more along the lines of what you are describing: a passionate, knowledgeable long-time employee. They certainly haven’t figured out how to leverage this forum to their advantage. They could take a lesson from Paul McGowan of PS Audio on that topic.

    Adam, I agree that profit is not a dirty word, per se. But there is a clear difference in how small, founder-driven companies like Magnepan and Soundlab approach profit vs. how a large conglomerate does it. The former tends to be customer-centric, while the latter tends to focus on sales, marketing and the balance sheet.
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  12. #57
    Super User JonFo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Big Canoe, GA
    Posts
    3,570

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Great post, Jon. They already tried that once, putting their new marketing guy on here a few years ago, and it fell completely flat. He hasn’t been heard from since. Peter Soderburgh (sp?) also used to post and he is much more along the lines of what you are describing: a passionate, knowledgeable long-time employee. They certainly haven’t figured out how to leverage this forum to their advantage. They could take a lesson from Paul McGowan of PS Audio on that topic. ...
    Rich, that's true, and the key was 'new marketing guy', if it had been one of the old-timers, or even a recent hire, but with the right bona-fides as a long-term brand advocate and fan, then it would have been different. It's a mighty tough role to fill, I'll grant that.

    Forum and other social media participation by a person (vs a corporate persona) would be very welcome and likely result in not only better feelings, but quantifiable sales.
    Jonathan

    System #45 (Monolith IIIx, Sequell IIb, SL3XC)

  13. #58
    Super User
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Great post, Jon. They already tried that once, putting their new marketing guy on here a few years ago, and it fell completely flat. He hasnít been heard from since. Peter Soderburgh (sp?) also used to post and he is much more along the lines of what you are describing: a passionate, knowledgeable long-time employee. They certainly havenít figured out how to leverage this forum to their advantage. They could take a lesson from Paul McGowan of PS Audio on that topic.

    Adam, I agree that profit is not a dirty word, per se. But there is a clear difference in how small, founder-driven companies like Magnepan and Soundlab approach profit vs. how a large conglomerate does it. The former tends to be customer-centric, while the latter tends to focus on sales, marketing and the balance sheet.
    An interesting form of marketing if you think about it. Ps audio - that forum - and Paul and Teds involvement along with other engineers - it is awesome. Paul answers personal email !! Magnepan does literally zero marketing. They refuse to get into the online boards - and audio asylum is probably the best place to get info. One of the guys speaks to Wendell and responds back. They seem to choose a small but profitable business model and their 'fan boys' do a lot of preaching on Internet forums.

    So with MLs refusal to come on in (and granted this forum was a bit hostile a couple years ago because of the perceived lack of product support) - I think they just ran away or figured this was not the right setting to have a discussion about their product. Wendell has done the same w Maggie. They have day jobs.

    Now saying all of this - how does the word get out about your product with the distribution channels dropping left and right. It isn't easy finding a demo that's for sure. And that demo is supposed to be 'the sell'. It gets further complicated when your product needs good conditions to justify the cost. So what's left? Internet hype. This feeling of customer service. I think you guys are onto something.

  14. #59
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lincoln, CA, USA
    Posts
    199

    Default

    Dennis Chern and I are not dead, We are not lacking in any passion and love what we do. Most of the principal engineers are all on board with some them being here for over 25 years. We maintained price points with radically updated products which have won universal praise in every review area out there and are financially strong and internally supported. 16 new products over a 18 month period in all categories(8 in ESL, High end) when we in the early days doing one or two new ones should demonstrate that we are committed and strong.
    The reason we do not weight in as we take the stance that this is "YOUR" forum, not ours and even though sometimes charges are made that are unfounded, believe that all folks need a way to express themselves.
    i just had to jump in though. See you at the shows, which if anyone checks, we have participated in more of them over the last year or two more than ever before.
    No, i wont' get into a discussion as again, we want this to be your soapbox.

  15. #60
    Super User Brad225's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Wesley Chapel, Fl
    Posts
    1,374

    Default

    Thanks Peter.

    That sound was the microphone hitting the floor.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •