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Thread: Is the Martin Logan brand declining?

  1. #121
    Forum Administrator twich54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    Somewhere on Martin Logan's website they state explicitly that you can drive their speakers with a receiver, so you can hardly blame Best Buy for doing so.....ML says it can be done, so demo it!
    agreed Bernard........ Audiophiles be damned !!
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by GW1800 View Post
    I think one area that is a missed opportunity is at shows.
    The marketing budget has to be managed in a holistic sense.

    Are shows the best use of a marketing budget for a speaker which is eminently room-dependent; like ML? I doubt it.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCHeliGuy View Post

    There used to be a local place called "The HiFi House" and there used to be a place called "Now Audio" that carried nice equipment including ML.,,
    Agree entirely!

    It's not that high-end hifi is dying; or that "ML is declining" - it is more that you simply can't sustain hifi shops which are used solely for people to walk into, demo equipment for free, then walk out and buy online.

    I agree hifi shops are nice. I agree hifi shops are the ideal way of presenting/auditioning/selling hifi equipment. But they are simply not a sustainable business model this day and age.

    So match the online price, you say? It simply can't be done with the high real-estate and running costs of a shop.

    Add to that the fact that the shop can rarely provide immediacy either. With all the options available these days (colours, features, etc), most times the shop has to place an internet-order for what you want anyway. So you may as well do it yourself!

    PS> I have a Model D. Great machine.
    Last edited by amey01; 01-08-2018 at 01:54 PM.
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  4. #124
    Member GW1800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amey01 View Post
    The marketing budget has to be managed in a holistic sense.

    Are shows the best use of a marketing budget for a speaker which is eminently room-dependent; like ML? I doubt it.
    I agree but.....with the lack of dealers that stock you could get a pretty good idea of what different models sound like. Like I said Kef was selling the hell out of their LS50’s. I just think with a little effort the sound could be OK and st the very least plant some seeds into minds to consider.
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  5. #125
    Super User amey01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GW1800 View Post
    Kef was selling the hell out of their LS50’s.
    But the LS50 is a speaker that sounds great anywhere. A large ML is entirely different. Bad sound at a show could your brand more damage than good.
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  6. #126
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    My opinion. Dealers need to offer more. Clear upgrade paths allowing you to save money. Taking on used inventory and selling it online. Making delivery and room setup help to anyone that wants or needs it. Offer best value - not best price. Can the manufacturer do anything to reduce inventory costs? I would guess there would be some incentives if they believe their dealer network is important.

    I could have purchased my last big purchase online. I chose a dealer because of the difficulty if something went bad in shipping. I was given a decent deal - not the absolute lowest price but a good one.

    They also need to sell online. There is no reason why they couldn't and decrease service based on it. Do both!! It's just another distribution channel.

    These are the brick and mortar stores I see that are surviving.

  7. #127
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amey01 View Post

    PS> I have a Model D. Great machine.
    Did you ever scull or row crew ? I took my first sculling class after I had my Concept 2 for a number of years. We happen to have some premiere rowing water nearby that colleges travel to for competitions and to train.
    Mark
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCHeliGuy View Post
    Did you ever scull or row crew ? I took my first sculling class after I had my Concept 2 for a number of years. We happen to have some premiere rowing water nearby that colleges travel to for competitions and to train.
    Not really. My wife does both seriously, attending comps, etc. As for me, I just have a paddle around occasionally.
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  9. #129
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    @Peter Soderberg I gather you work for ML? I think your reply is a little tone deaf. It's not a matter of optimum setup. I have done the work and my Vantage's sit more than 3 feet from back wall, etc. The problem I have with the new ML Butt is it will severely limit my adjustment options (side to side) for Toe-In, etc. - I don't have this problem with my Vantage. I have a designated space that has worked for decades but I have not had to contend with the footprint of ML Butt before. If you saw a picture of my setup, it would be immediately clear that I would have less, not more installation options. This has really given me pause about upgrading and I again predict that the next gen of ML ESL's will have to address this issue.

  10. #130
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    I think that their target market will be putting them in very large rooms and some of us are no longer their target market.

    Technology is improving dramatically in terms of getting a lot of sound out of a very small speaker. Frankly I think that ESL panels have almost become a fashion statement for people with room to set them up.

    Sorry, I love my ML speakers, but I think that is closer to the truth.
    Mark
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCHeliGuy View Post
    I think that their target market will be putting them in very large rooms and some of us are no longer their target market.

    Technology is improving dramatically in terms of getting a lot of sound out of a very small speaker. Frankly I think that ESL panels have almost become a fashion statement for people with room to set them up.

    Sorry, I love my ML speakers, but I think that is closer to the truth.
    Sure, small speakers can sound amazing these days. But at the end of the day, moving large volumes of air is going to be thing that gives you the concert experience. We are just
    going to have to wait till the day that our amplifier are directly wired to our brains

  12. #132
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpokuls View Post
    Sure, small speakers can sound amazing these days. But at the end of the day, moving large volumes of air is going to be thing that gives you the concert experience. We are just
    going to have to wait till the day that our amplifier are directly wired to our brains
    I'm not sure I agree with that statement because you are implying that having a large sheet of Mylar is the only way to move large volumes of air. Yes you need to move air, but there are many ways to do that. For example I'm surprised at the volume of air some folded ribbon tweeters can create. There is a lot of surface area in a very compact space.

    ESL's are just one means to an end and they have just as many downsides as upsides.

    My ML's have an extremely small sweet spot where the stereo imaging works well. Simply standing up causes the higher frequencies to drop off noticeably. Sure I could cure that with even taller ESL panels, but that's not going to happen.

    Granted they aren't sending as much sound at the ceiling and floor which reduces those kind of reflections, but there are also the entire rear firing waves to deal with which make placement much more of a chore.

    Notice the number of "former" ML owners here who either had space constraints or found something else that they liked better. I'm not saying ML speakers are bad, but they are to some extent an aesthetic. People will attribute sound qualities to them just because of how they look. They have an impressive look to them. I've even noticed ML speakers in some TV series and movies as props to make a place look more futuristic/eclectic.
    Last edited by RCHeliGuy; 01-10-2018 at 04:52 AM.
    Mark
    JRiver Media Server 21 on Windows 10 -> (Async USB) -> OPPO 105D -> Emotiva XPA-2 gen 2 -> Martin Logan Ethos -> my ears

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCHeliGuy View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with that statement because you are implying that having a large sheet of Mylar is the only way to move large volumes of air. Yes you need to move air, but there are many ways to do that. For example I'm surprised at the volume of air some folded ribbon tweeters can create. There is a lot of surface area in a very compact space.
    .
    I didn't mean to imply that only ESLs can move a lot of air (actually create waves in the air). Cones have been doing that for years. All I meant was that from an engineering point of view, everything is compromise. If you want to have small speakers, then you have to give up something else.

    And yes, ESL have compromises also. Purists would say that hybrid ESLs are an example of that.

  14. #134
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    Well. You are either in MLs target market or you aren't. It's a specialty product. Not everyone with a pulse is suited for it. There are upsides and downsides to any product. I like the ML product. People that get into the masterpiece line - hell they'll build a room for them if they have to. It's really about passion for the hobby. Some people aren't really that into it but might have some decent kit. Big speakers are 'it' for me as are planars.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by timm View Post
    Well. You are either in MLs target market or you aren't. It's a specialty product. Not everyone with a pulse is suited for it. There are upsides and downsides to any product. I like the ML product. People that get into the masterpiece line - hell they'll build a room for them if they have to. It's really about passion for the hobby. Some people aren't really that into it but might have some decent kit. Big speakers are 'it' for me as are planars.
    Yeah, I guess I'm in the camp of wanting a pair since college, finally buying a pair to check off my bucket list, and now I've scratched that itch.
    Mark
    JRiver Media Server 21 on Windows 10 -> (Async USB) -> OPPO 105D -> Emotiva XPA-2 gen 2 -> Martin Logan Ethos -> my ears

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