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  1. #31
    Forum Administrator twich54's Avatar
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    OK, lets start with 'death row' .......... get rid of them.
     
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  2. #32
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twich54 View Post
    OK, lets start with 'death row' .......... get rid of them.
    Let's get rid of death row. It costs Tax payers HUGE sums of money to prosecute to get that sentence and about 20% of the time they are planning to execute someone not guilty.

    It would save us HUGE amounts of money to just turn those into life sentences. Once again the key reasons are 1 in 5 are not guilty and it would save us a ton of money to do this.
    Mark
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  3. #33
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    We need to legalize pot nationwide and just be done with it!

    Deaths because of pot are almost ZERO and you cannot OD on pot.

    I've never heard of an angry pot head, but an angry drunk can kill. Pot is a very good thing for people going through chemotherapy and for people dealing with pain management. Pot is not addictive like the pain killers that big Pharma is selling and making piles of money from. So of course they pay big money to fight against pot legalization.

    We also need to make the sentences for cocaine and crack the same. The only reason they are different is race related.
    Mark
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  4. #34
    Super User amey01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    It's complicated, but one of the main reasons is simply money. It's expensive to incarcerate someone.
    I agree.

    But I've always said - why bother with incarcerating people for "punishment", when they owe such a debt to society anyway. Prison should be reserved for those simply too dangerous to be in the community. For the rest of them, chain their sorry legs together (or use the modern equivalent, GPS tags) and get them working. We could have new freeways, fast railways, etc with all the free labour. Heck - even if that is a stretch too far, imagine how nice and clean our cities could be if we gave the bastards just a mop and bucket!
    Marantz 8300 SACD / Squeezebox Touch --> Audiolab M-DAC --> Copland CTA-305 --> Classé CA-101 --> MartinLogan Vista / Behringer DEQ2496 --> Whise Profunder sub

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  5. #35
    Forum Administrator twich54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCHeliGuy View Post
    Let's get rid of death row. It costs Tax payers HUGE sums of money to prosecute to get that sentence and about 20% of the time they are planning to execute someone not guilty.

    It would save us HUGE amounts of money to just turn those into life sentences. Once again the key reasons are 1 in 5 are not guilty and it would save us a ton of money to do this.
    BS !! I tell you what, how about we send those 20% to live with you !!

    So you want to harbor and pay for those violent offenders that are part of the 80 % ???

    Next thing is I suppose you will tell me that those that commit crimes against children and the elderly deserve a second chance, please , don't tell me your that sick !
    Dave

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  6. #36
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twich54 View Post
    BS !! I tell you what, how about we send those 20% to live with you !!

    So you want to harbor and pay for those violent offenders that are part of the 80 % ???

    Next thing is I suppose you will tell me that those that commit crimes against children and the elderly deserve a second chance, please , don't tell me your that sick !

    BS? I'll show you the statistics on executed innocents and how the system frequently destroys the lives of innocent people.

    As for where to put them, the whole point was that it was MUCH cheaper to lock them up for life than to deal with the appeal process and legal costs to get a life sentence to get someone on death row.

    Your third comment jumps the shark and has zippo to do with what we are talking about.


    We have a serious problem in the US of creating hardened criminals with our penal system. Our system creates high repeat offenders. We have an F them and throw away the keys mentality and then never trust them ever again when they are released which pretty well kills their chance at ever having a life after they served their time.

    In fact for some of the serious sex offender cases, there really is no incentive for them to behave after they are released. You could self righteously say they deserve having their lived F'd up for life and I'm not saying I disagree with that. The problem is that if they can't move on, they won't and the system just guarantees more people will be hurt. So either don't let them out, or find some way that they can make a life for themselves, but you can't give them a no win scenario or someone else will pay.

    BTW this is pure economics, not morality. Just like giving out free needles to help slow the spread of AIDS. It works and innocent people are saved from contracting AIDS, but may people can't get over the idea of giving out needles as somehow endorsing intravenous drug use.
    Last edited by RCHeliGuy; 10-14-2017 at 07:07 PM.
    Mark
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  7. #37
    Forum Administrator twich54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCHeliGuy View Post
    BS? I'll show you the statistics on executed innocents and how the system frequently destroys the lives of innocent people.
    spoken like a true bleeding heart lib (a conservative who has yet to be victimized), for God's sake how about the 80% (you like your percentages) and the families they ruined ! I hope they all move into your neighborhood when released !

    Oh, as far as death row, you missed my point, once there and the appeal process has been run through........... the chair !
    Last edited by twich54; 10-14-2017 at 07:17 PM.
    Dave

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  8. #38
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twich54 View Post
    spoken like a true bleeding heart lib (a conservative who has yet to be victimized), for God's sake how about the 80% (you like your percentages) and the families they ruined ! I hope they all move into your neighborhood when released !

    Oh, as far as death row, you missed my point, once there and the appeal process has been run through........... the chair !
    You missed my point. There are 100 people represented below. All of them are on death row AFTER the appeals process.
    20 of them are innocent, but we have no idea which 20 those are.
    Some of them could be exonerated a decade from now if we don't kill these innocent people.
    So don't kill them and give them life sentences before the expensive appeals process for the chair.

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    Mark
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  9. #39
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twich54 View Post
    spoken like a true bleeding heart lib (a conservative who has yet to be victimized)
    Spoken like a conservative who has never been unfairly detained or convicted of something you didn't do and who fears people who are "different".

    Remember that the families being ruined are also victims of our great system and not just the victims of crimes. There is a reason that many people don't trust the police. It's relatively easy to trust the police in the US if you are a reasonably well off white person living in a nice part of town.

    Let's say that you were convicted of killing someone and spent 10 years on death row and were finally exonerated. Now lets say your face had been in the press and everyone in your area had passed judgement on you and feared the worst. Your wife left you, you missed out on seeing your children grow up. They grew up with the stigma of a parent in jail and ridiculed by peers and acted out getting into crime themselves because you weren't there to discipline them. Your ex-wife was suicidal at some points and had trouble making ends meet. Maybe she got involved with some guys that were not the best influence on her or your children. The damage of this mistake is now reaching another generation of your family and starting them down the wrong path.

    Now you have to find employment and have a 10 year hole in your work experience and people still don't trust you. They "know" you did it even though you had nothing to do with the crime. Do you move away from your home to start fresh leaving what's left of your family behind? Keep in mind this is actually a good scenario if you are released as innocent without a record.


    Getting back to your comment about criminals or released innocents moving into my neighborhood or frankly the neighborhood of most people who own a pair of ML speakers.

    Think about how likely that is for a minute. The demographic that typically owns ML speakers is not living hand to mouth. I live in what I would call a top 1.5-2% neighborhood. The homes here are on a ridge spread apart with long driveways. The people here are self-employed like me, a CIO, a doctor, a business owner etc.. You get the idea. Across the street from my subdivision is a top 1% gated community with a guard, no solicitation allowed, etc. Crime around here is nil.

    Take anyone released from prison with a record, and ask yourself what their chances are of ever being successful enough to be able to afford a home in an area like this might be.
    Mark
    JRiver Media Server 21 on Windows 10 -> (Async USB) -> OPPO 105D -> Emotiva XPA-2 gen 2 -> Martin Logan Ethos -> my ears

  10. #40
    Forum Administrator twich54's Avatar
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    Mark, suffice it to say we'll never agree on this so lets move on .........
    Dave

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  11. #41
    Super User Rich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twich54 View Post
    spoken like a true bleeding heart lib (a conservative who has yet to be victimized), for God's sake how about the 80% (you like your percentages) and the families they ruined ! I hope they all move into your neighborhood when released !
    *sigh*
    I've gone back and forth on whether to call you out on this, Dave, but I simply can't hold my tongue. The above-quoted paragraph is unacceptable dialog. Argue the facts, argue the conclusions and policy implications that arise from those facts, but don't resort to juvenile name-calling and don't wish bad things to happen to others for their beliefs. Just stick to your arguments and don't make it personal. At all. This is true for all of us, and all of us make mistakes on occasion, me included. But as a moderator and long-time forum member, you've got to hold yourself to a higher standard.

    I've been impressed with the fact that this thread hasn't been shut down, even though the topic is controversial, because people for the most part have been keeping it civil. Let's not let it devolve into personal attacks. We are adults. We can disagree without being jerks to each other. Your last post suggesting that you both agree to disagree and move on from the subject is a much better way to handle it.
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  12. #42
    Super User Gordon Gray's Avatar
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    Seems like the "we can't talk about that now" strategy with Republicans in DC is working again.

    Rich, one of these days Dave will be wearing a Nancy Pelosi badge.

  13. #43
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Gray View Post
    Seems like the "we can't talk about that now" strategy with Republicans in DC is working again.

    Rich, one of these days Dave will be wearing a Nancy Pelosi badge.
    Gordon, many democrats wouldn't even do that
    Mark
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  14. #44
    Forum Administrator twich54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Gray View Post

    Rich, one of these days Dave will be wearing a Nancy Pelosi badge.
    LOL Gordon that along with wearing a Trump badge will NEVER happen !

    Rich, yeah I know, I get 'heated' when it come to capital punishment, while I've never been violated as such it has happened close to home and thus I've seen the inadequacies of our judicial system first hand, as I know you have. There are some crimes that I FIRMLY believe in zero tolerance and when my button is pushed I push back !
    Dave

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  15. #45
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    Don't run for mayor Mark!! I can see the commercial 'RCHELIGUY SOFT ON CRIME!! Gives murderers and rapists get out of jail free card!!' lol. I used to love the Franken and Davis skits on SNL with the mud slinging. Funny I think we have gone lower than that!!

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