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Thread: Bump stocks. Who will be

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCHeliGuy View Post
    This is the first time that the NRA said that maybe this is something that should be looked at which seems like the first time they have ever opened something up to be regulated. They are very wary of any regulation because they see it as a momentum issue, where one restriction is followed by another, so this is a hard comment for them to make.
    Exactly. And this is why we need to dump these far left/far right idiots. They can't use common sense to govern and that's a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timm View Post
    Exactly. And this is why we need to dump these far left/far right idiots. They can't use common sense to govern and that's a problem.
    That's the root cause of most problems in the world.

    People seem predisposed with polarising hard line one way or the other.

    By definition, a controversial topic is controversial exactly because there are damned good arguments on both sides.

    If people would see it from a logical and objective viewpoint instead of polarising one way or the other then the world would be a better place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amey01 View Post
    Nothing to prevent it, for sure.

    But what if you can extend the regularity of these events from every second day, to 7,800 (and counting) days without a mass shooting?

    Just about every other civilised country seems pretty successful in doing so.

    And you suggestion for accomplishing this would be?

    I may not be up to date on the news but a mass shooting every second day?

  4. #19
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    The problem with the US is that it is an odd duck with lots of historical paranoia and distrust for authority etc.. and lots of wanting to feel good about ourselves and nationalism.

    Let's use Confederate Statues as an example.

    Very few statues were put up after the Civil War and even Robert E. Lee said that he didn't think we should put up statues and should try to get the country past this and move on. I'm paraphrasing.

    Most civil war statues were put up around 1910 and then there was another surge in the 1960's by KKK and white supremacists who were against equal rights and trying to make a statement.

    However we have many people who have great grand parents who fought for the Confederacy and cognitive dissonance is strong. These people will believe many things to feel good about themselves and the people they love. So they try to change history a bit and say their fore fathers were not fighting for slavery, but instead states rights.

    This would be harmless if we were all in this together. Unfortunately the descendants of the slave labor force don't see things the same way and they are very offended by this.

    Basically this would be like having Nazi heritage and trying to downplay the holocaust to feel better about themselves and then finding Jewish people don't feel the same way and are very upset.

    So most Confederate statues are not civil war history at all but are attacks on black's rights or to make people feel better about their ancestors.

    Guns are the same way.

    I was in the ARMY and I saw the lust some people developed for weapons very quickly. They gave people a feeling of power and the whole tear it from my cold dead fingers runs true. These people are very passionate about their guns and would get violent to protect their weapons. The rampant paranoia in this country only fans the flames and fear is a very strong motivator.

    These are both subjects that will divide our country and it's unlikely that the emotions on either subject will drop to a level that allows reasonable discussions about them.

    Basically we are screwed until sane minds prevail and I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad225 View Post
    And you suggestion for accomplishing this would be?

    I may not be up to date on the news but a mass shooting every second day?
    Actually, more than every second day. Well more. 278 mass shootings in the USA this year to date.

    Source: http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

    You guys are immune to it, but seriously, this stuff doesn't happen in other countries with anywhere near the same regularity.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by amey01 View Post
    Actually, more than every second day. Well more. 278 mass shootings in the USA this year to date.

    Source: http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

    You guys are immune to it, but seriously, this stuff doesn't happen in other countries with anywhere near the same regularity.
    In 1996? Australia bought back over 1 Million guns to purge them, and in 2016 the US sold 26 Million guns to citizens for home use.

    We have over 270 times more weapons in the US than Australia ever had and we just keep digging ourselves in deeper and deeper every year.

    The US has about 14 times as many citizens and have about 20 times more guns per capita than Australia had until recently.
    Last edited by RCHeliGuy; 10-10-2017 at 01:51 PM.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCHeliGuy View Post
    In 1996? Australia bought back over 1 Million guns to purge them, and in 2016 the US sold 26 Million guns to citizens for home use.

    We have over 270 times more weapons in the US than Australia ever had and we just keep digging ourselves in deeper and deeper every year.

    The US has about 14 times as many citizens and have about 20 times more guns per capita than Australia had until recently.
    And remember - every illegal/criminal gun starts its life as a legal one. So if you reduce the legal ones in your society, guess what follows?
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by amey01 View Post
    And remember - every illegal/criminal gun starts its life as a legal one. So if you reduce the legal ones in your society, guess what follows?
    Sadly the problems in the US are almost entirely because of the disintegration of our society. We have little honor. Everything is based on greed and no one takes responsibility for their actions.

    On top of that the original intent of the 2nd Amendment has been butchered and co-opted. People who purchased guns do not train with a militia. They just want to own guns.
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  9. #24
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    This is worth the watch; got it originally off Facebook. It's funny, but I was not laughing....because of the subject matter. A sad situation indeed, as I watch my fellow human beings immediately south of the border.

    https://youtu.be/a-o9pwWUzz0

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by amey01 View Post
    Actually, more than every second day. Well more. 278 mass shootings in the USA this year to date.

    Source: http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

    You guys are immune to it, but seriously, this stuff doesn't happen in other countries with anywhere near the same regularity.

    That was interesting to look through. I would contend that the definition of "mass" here might not be accurate. That said it is still too many.

    On each page, I opened the source on 2 or 3 to see what the circumstances were. Virtually every one was someone with a criminal record, gang related, drug sales. Very few would be able to purchase guns legally.

    Even without a gun I would contend most of those attacks would have been committed with a knife, club or some other weapon.

    The justice system here doesn't hold people responsible for crimes they commit. People get arrested here regularly with 1-15 felony convictions. There is clearly a big flaw in the system, that we can all agree on.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad225 View Post

    The justice system here doesn't hold people responsible for crimes they commit. People get arrested here regularly with 1-15 felony convictions. There is clearly a big flaw in the system, that we can all agree on.
    I think we all empathetically agree on this.

    It is disgusting.

    What is it with the judiciary? It is the same situation here in Australia. The police arrest the same people, over and over again and the damned judiciary just let them back on to the streets.
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  12. #27
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    I was just looking at audio stuff on the computer and listening to the local news.

    Here in our area 3 teens 2-sixteen year old and 1-seventeen year old stole an SUV and went on a robbery spree.
    At a high speed they ran into a car driven by a 30 year old man on his way to work sitting at a traffic light.
    The SUV rolled a number of times burst into flames and 2 of the 3 were killed. These 3 teens had over 100 arrests combined previously.

    Geico Insurance was the insurance carrier for the man sitting at the light. He only had insurance to cover liability injuries. The cost of his destroyed car is not covered. His $100,000 medical cost is not yet confirmed.
    The insurance company made public today that they paid $20,000 to each of the families of the teens. At this point they will not comment on why other some attorney will take the case and sue for even more.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by amey01 View Post
    What is it with the judiciary? It is the same situation here in Australia. The police arrest the same people, over and over again and the damned judiciary just let them back on to the streets.
    It's complicated, but one of the main reasons is simply money. It's expensive to incarcerate someone. It's expensive to build new prisons. People want protection from crime, but they don't want to pay for it.

    I used to prosecute felony drug crimes. I would put some crack dealer away for fifteen years, and then be prosecuting them on a new offense a year or two later. Why? Because the prisons in my state are already overcrowded, well beyond acceptable limits. The state government is woefully underfunded. And it is corrupt, so any extra money that does come in gets siphoned off for pet projects. The taxpayers are loath to pay more in taxes to build new prisons. And drug crimes are considered "victimless crimes" so those offenders will be the first to be released.
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  14. #29
    Super User RCHeliGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    It's complicated, but one of the main reasons is simply money. It's expensive to incarcerate someone. It's expensive to build new prisons. People want protection from crime, but they don't want to pay for it.
    The US already has the HIGHEST INCARCERATION RATE IN THE WORLD! What more do you want?

    "our rate of incarceration is more than five times higher than most of the countries in the world. "

    https://www.prisonpolicy.org/global/

    Take a peek at the world incarceration rates if every US state were a country. The ONLY countries that even come close to our national average are Cuba, Russia and Rwanda however we are substantially higher than they are.

    Is it possible that our lack of being willing to pay for prisons is not the root cause of this?

    We have a SERIOUS cultural problem in the US. Our society is sick and we are doing everything we can to fan the flames and make it worse.

    BTW the War on Drugs has been absolutely horrible for families in the US as well as a waste of money, both to imprison these people and frequently lose their tax revenue because many pot smokers were perfectly upstanding members of society with jobs.

    So instead of letting these people earn a living, pay taxes and be there for their families, we pay to lock them away.
    Last edited by RCHeliGuy; 10-14-2017 at 11:03 AM.
    Mark
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  15. #30
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    Mark, I understand where you are coming from but the average pot smoker found guilty is not the issue with major crime and full prisons.

    Though not popular with many people I know. I have said for a long time give people options.

    You are a drug addict you can have free real drug treatment or all the free drugs of your choice.

    If you want treatment because you want your life back, problem solved.

    If you chose free drugs and you die, well, problem solved.

    If we were not paying for law enforcement to deal with drug related crimes, prosecution of drug related crimes and incarceration on drug related crimes. the savings would offset the rest.

    See even your "Crazy Donald" hasn't gone that far.

    I too think this is an EXTREME suggestion, but, the war on drugs is never going to be won. As Rich said, there is too much money to be made.

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