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Flm09

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I read over the amp stickies! But was wondering what is more optimal for the motion esl.

Is my current integrated Nad c390dd good enough? If not I was thinking of trying Adcom GFA-565se or Synergy 450 amp made by Audio Van Alstine. For preamp thinking of a passive like Schiit Freya.

What you guys/gals think?

Thanks!
 
If you are not close or, are near Vancouver, you need to get some amps to try out on loan from a brick and mortar store/salon, you might have to place a deposit for the gear, you really need to hear them with your speakers in your room!

If that isn't an option, then buy the most powerful amp that likes Ml's wicked loads, gonna be pricey!! Welcome to MLO forums :cool:
 
If you are not close or, are near Vancouver, you need to get some amps to try out on loan from a brick and mortar store/salon, you might have to place a deposit for the gear, you really need to hear them with your speakers in your room!

If that isn't an option, then buy the most powerful amp that likes Ml's wicked loads, gonna be pricey!! Welcome to MLO forums :cool:

Yes I am near Vancouver! Funny you mentioned a most power amp. Another esl designer advise me same thing! Get a beefy amp.He says most amp tend to sound the same if not clipping and if output impedance is then .1. BTW he doesn't recommend tubes. I was also looking at ps audio bhk 250 stereo amp but that's way more than my speaker lol!
 
Is my current integrated Nad c390dd good enough?

how does it sound to your ears ? if good the answer is yes

If not I was thinking of trying Adcom GFA-565se or Synergy 450 amp made by Audio Van Alstine. For preamp thinking of a passive like Schiit Freya.

What you guys/gals think?

Thanks!

there are so many good options from which to choose , as for tubes, the right ones sound great. I used a pair of Rogue M180 mono blocks to drive my Spire's when I had them.

As stuwee says , be patient take your time and audition wherever possible.
 
Get a beefy amp
Easier said than done. It all depends on the definition of 'beefy'. Does it mean an amp which can pump out the most watts? or does it mean the amp which can pump out lots of current? For example, the 2 amps which I owned: Classe' CA-300 (300wpc) and Levinson 331 (100wpc), the Levinson sounds much more powerful than the Classe'. The Classe' was quite good but it was outclassed by the Levinson. The tell-tale sign is that the Levinson put "400wpc continuous into 2 ohms" in their specs. Bottom llne, it's way too easy for someone to say "get a beefy amp" and they usually mean the ones with the most watts. That general, blanket statement may not be the case for ESL. Do your research carefully.
 
how does it sound to your ears ? if good the answer is yes



there are so many good options from which to choose , as for tubes, the right ones sound great. I used a pair of Rogue M180 mono blocks to drive my Spire's when I had them.

As stuwee says , be patient take your time and audition wherever possible.

It actually does sound find! But not sure if the highs are accurate.
 
I heard a levinson drive thiel before very holographic and airy with texture. But can't afford!
 
A few things to keep in mind.

Stats present a mostly reactive (ie capacitive) load to an amplifier and, therefore, operate on volts and not watts. You have to be very careful when looking at an amp’s wattage rating when it is being used to drive a stat panel. Watts is far less important than the amp’s power supply voltage rating! An amp with an inadequate power supply voltage performance will easily clip when hooked up to a stat …. despite its wattage rating.

Also keep in mind that a stat’s highly reactive behaviour means that it has weird phase angles and sends electrical current back to the amp (when signal reverses polarity). Many amps tend to be unstable under such conditions so you need to make sure the amp is stable with reactive loads.

Like with watts, more volts is always better. Especially when volumes are needed to produce live levels. For such demands, 100w will only get you into the 1,400v stator range (using 1:50 step-up) and will almost certainly be troublesome. 500w gets you into the 3,200v range which should be fine for almost all home applications.

Of course, not everyone needs or desires live level volumes so, for them, they might be able to employ a somewhat lower voltage amp. Unfortunately, the great challenge for most is actually figuring out if they are using an amp that is clipping or not.
 
A few things to keep in mind.

Stats present a mostly reactive (ie capacitive) load to an amplifier and, therefore, operate on volts and not watts. You have to be very careful when looking at an amp’s wattage rating when it is being used to drive a stat panel. Watts is far less important than the amp’s power supply voltage rating! An amp with an inadequate power supply voltage performance will easily clip when hooked up to a stat …. despite its wattage rating.

Also keep in mind that a stat’s highly reactive behaviour means that it has weird phase angles and sends electrical current back to the amp (when signal reverses polarity). Many amps tend to be unstable under such conditions so you need to make sure the amp is stable with reactive loads.

Like with watts, more volts is always better. Especially when volumes are needed to produce live levels. For such demands, 100w will only get you into the 1,400v stator range (using 1:50 step-up) and will almost certainly be troublesome. 500w gets you into the 3,200v range which should be fine for almost all home applications.

Of course, not everyone needs or desires live level volumes so, for them, they might be able to employ a somewhat lower voltage amp. Unfortunately, the great challenge for most is actually figuring out if they are using an amp that is clipping or not.

Yes I agree with you! For example one of the amps on my list is the Adcom GFA-565se. How many volts will it present to the esl?
 
Also can you give me formula to how many volts an amp can produce. My second choice for amp is the Van Alstine synergy 450 amp!
 
V=SQRT(PxZ)

For capable amps you are looking @ max Vout

~28v for 100w
~40v for 200w
~64v for 500w

The turns ratio of the step-up transformer is fixed (say at 1:50). So a 100 watt amplifier's 28 volts will be increased 50x to 1,400 volts. By comparison, the 64 volts available from a 500 watt amplifier will produce 3,200 volts on the stators. That is a big difference and the speakers will play much louder when driven by 3,200 volts than with just 1,400 volts.

Keep in mind that while the transformer steps the amp voltage up (based on its turns ratio) it also transforms the impedance lower (by the same turns ratio) as well as increases the inductance and capacitance (by the same turns ratio) ….enough to cause some amps to misbehave or even to become damaged. It really is a mixed bag; for the most part it makes the load much more difficult to drive as it lowers impedance and increases capacitance dramatically. However, the transformer is essential to increase the voltage so that the speaker plays at a usefully loud enough volume level.
 
Ok thanks Pneumonic! Yeah I'm looking for a amp that is stable into 2 ohms and doubles it power into lower impedances & can handle reactive loads. So far top on my list is the Adcom GFA -565se!
 
Actually I would not recommend the Adcom 565SE for the reasons mentioned above. According to the specs, Adcom's power supply is not robust enough to handle a 2 ohm load. The ESLs in general - you didn't specify your model, can drop to below 1 ohm at high octaves. I'd look for amps that double their power as the load is halved. There are quite a few options out there and only your budget can determine the right option.
 
FWIW a while back i heard a Nad c390dd connected to a pair of Aeon i's.

Surprising good sound. If you are not one to push the volume too high or want vast amounts of bass. That NAD is a winner.

Even so, all the comments about more powerful amps handing the reactive load is still true.

Other integrated amps (with DAC) I have heard with Martin Logans are Devialet (wow dynamic) and McIntosh.
 
Pneumonic nailed it. Spot on reasons why one needs to be careful when shopping for an ESL amp.'

My favorite ESL amp is one designed for ESLs, the Sanders Sound Systems ESL amp or their Magtech Amp. I direct-drive my panels with them (no passive crossovers) and they can deal with the wicked reactive and low resistance (1.2Ohms IIRC) of the huge Monolith (also Neolith) sized panels. Plays nice an clean, even at reference levels (105dB).

Other options if on a budget are the Sunfire amps, they can be found used for not much money, are easy to refurbish and can double their output with every halving of impedance. Which as noted before, is what you need for an ESL. Best are the 'Signature' line.

Finally, I would NOT recommend any Adcom for an ESL, I ran some back in the 90's, and he Sunfires walked all over them once I got those. Ditched the Adcoms quickly.
 
Yeah I am using the Nad set to 6 ohm speaker compensation and it sounds clear and articulate! Nice microdynamics, good focus! Was just curious what a high voltage amp would sound like! I just ordered the Bluos optional board. I will be streaming most of my music through Deezer & maybe Tidal.
 
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Actually I would not recommend the Adcom 565SE for the reasons mentioned above. According to the specs, Adcom's power supply is not robust enough to handle a 2 ohm load. The ESLs in general - you didn't specify your model, can drop to below 1 ohm at high octaves. I'd look for amps that double their power as the load is halved. There are quite a few options out there and only your budget can determine the right option.


I have the motion esl!
 
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