Hi from Savannah GA

Hi all,
I'm Charlie from Savannah, GA and this is my first post.

I must confess that I don't own ML speakers but I admire them greatly. That said, I do have a pair of homebuilt hybrid ESL's and I joined here to be a part of the biggest ESL community around-- just hope you are all OK that I'm not actually a ML owner.

I'm looking forward to sharing this hobby (psychosis) with you.

Charlie

Welcome Charlie! Please tell us more about your homebuilt ESL's. We'd also love to see some pics!

Thanks for your welcome.
My speaker is a bi-amp'd hybrid ESL with a transmission line bass cab and wire stators that are electrically segmented for wide dispersion.

Project website: http://jazzman-esl-page.blogspot.com/

Hi Charlie, welcome to our little corner of audio-obsession. Any ESL owner is welcome.

I've admired your creative ESL project for years, so it's good to finally tell you directly that I think your design and build are truly amazing.

Cheers,

Welcome Charlie.. WOW!!! Very impressive!!

Welcome! And yes, your speaker project is quite impressive!

Charles, Welcome aboard. Superb looking speakers !

Alan, Jonathan, Tom, Rich, Dave,

Thank you for the warm welcome.

I may not be an ML owner (yet) but a pair of ML Summits got me started on this ESL journey.

I walked into a hi-fi store in Chattanooga and a potted plant caught my eye... only I was seeing it through the panel of the ML speaker in front of it. So I sat myself down in a lounge chair placed at the sweet spot and a salesman walked over and cranked up the volume. (I'm sure you all remember the first time you heard an ESL) Their clarity and coherence were downright spooky.

I was going through a divorce at the time so taking them home was not in the cards... but I was hooked!

A couple of years later I built my first pair of perf metal panels and the psychosis started in earnest. Even after all these years, the magic of ESL's still captivates me!

Thanks again,
Charlie

Well hello Charlie! Welcome!

Small world! I wasn't expecting to see you here, but am certainly glad that you are. And of course, it's always a pleasure to sit here and look at those works of art you call ESL's.

Fascinating stuff Charlie, welcome!! I'm impressed, I'm sharing your blog with some others around the planet, hope you don't mind...

Wow! That's one helluva DIY project!

I'm curious if the transmission line cabinet behind the panels impacts the soundstage by blocking or reflecting the rear dipole wave (or is the back of the stat panel already solid)?

sleepysurf said:

Wow! That's one helluva DIY project!

I'm curious if the transmission line cabinet behind the panels impacts the soundstage by blocking or reflecting the rear dipole wave (or is the back of the stat panel already solid)?

Click to expand...

The back of the stat panel is open and so are the sides of the cabinet behind the panel. Below is a portion of my speaker drawing (top view looking down) showing the beam splitter in relation to the panel:


When designing this speaker it was not my intent to add the beam splitter for its own sake. Rather, it was a solution to a dilemma with the woofer box. You see, I wanted a tall panel with a woofer directly under it in a transmission line but a TL requires a huge box and the dilemma was how to cram its 4ft3 volume into a slim package and minimal footprint. Angling the woofer box int a V-section beam splitter allowed extending its volume upward, directly behind the stat panel-- the V-splitter divides the panel's rearward sound and deflects it out the open sides of the speaker rather than bouncing it back to the diaphragm. And it works very well.

Now I understand! That "beam splitter" design is brilliant! It sort of functions as a built-in rear diffusor!
Did you ever experiment with covering the beam splitter surface with absorption panels or similar material?

sleepysurf said:

Now I understand! That "beam splitter" design is brilliant!

Click to expand...

Yes, I had thought it to be my original idea and I was really proud of myself for dreaming up-- until I stumbled upon the drawing below showing a similar V-section beam splitter ESL built decades earlier by a company in Germany.

Oh well, I should not be surprised that someone else found the same simple solution to the same problem-- I can't imagine another way to do it. Still, I take some solace in the fact that I came up with the idea independently, without prior knowledge of Shackman's design.

That looks like WAY TOO MUCH FUN !!!!

Nice work!

As a BSEE who loves woodworking your project hits a lot of my buttons

Thanks for the compliment Mark,

It IS a lot of fun but it's wise to recognize it for what it really is... a PSYCHOSIS!!!

Jazzman53 said:

Thanks for the compliment Mark,

It IS a lot of fun but it's wise to recognize it for what it really is... a PSYCHOSIS!!!

Click to expand...

Psychosis is a pretty strong word. There is a difference between losing touch with reality and sticking with something.

Sometimes it takes perseverance and maybe a bit of obsession to get through a very long complex project.

It takes a certain type person to bother with a project like this. For most it would be too much trouble and not worth the effort. However the world is a better off because of people who can think in terms of very complex long term projects and who have the ability to stick with them.

I'm happiest when I'm knee deep in a project with lots of learning curves. Over the years I've found a few other like minded individuals. Interestingly enough they have all become self employed. Some of them have founded multiple companies. I have a friend who headed up an R&D lab working on PET scanners and now teaches at a university and has spun off a number of tech companies. Another built a steam turbine generator just for grins in his back yard. He current builds custom high speed laser, sonar, optical inspection systems for manufacturing processes that solve problems no one else has cracked. This is probably his 4th or 5th company. People who are not afraid of challenges make their own opportunities. Elon Musk is the current pinnacle of this

What are you working on now?

RCHeliGuy said:

What are you working on now?

Click to expand...

Hello again Mark,

After multiple tweaks and panel upgrades, I’ve finally reached Nirvana with my beam splitter ESL’s so no changes planned for those. However, I am contemplating a simpler design to post on my website because my current designs are intimidating for anyone not equipped for the woodwork and I think most people prefer to use a single amplifier anyway.

Also, I’m thinking about a slightly smaller, more commercially viable design to build (only occasionally) and sell on Etsy when I retire (I’ll be 64 in Sept). This speaker would use a wood lattice segmented wire stator with either a passive crossover or built in DSP and class D amp powering the woofer. I haven’t drawn up anything yet. Etsy is more of a niche market for those looking for something different or artistic -- and I would focus a lot on the woodwork to fit that niche.

I know how to build an active bi-amp’d system but, with practically no electronics experience, I have no idea how to build a passive crossover for an ESL. In order make it work the driver(s) must have a relatively stable impedance and I don’t know how to build a circuit to tame the ESL’s impedance.

Contrary to popular belief, it’s WAY MORE DIFFICULT to design passive system than an active one. Even if you know how to do it, you could spend months dialing it in, as each component interacts with all others to affect gain and phasing. In fact, a 2nd order filter shifts phasing so much that swapping the leads to invert the phasing actually brings the phasing back closer to correct! I can’t imagine how you’d get the woofer/panel phasing right. This is a big reason I admire ML designs so much-- it's HARD to do!

I wish someone with the smarts to do it would author a how-to guide for ESL passive crossovers. Or maybe team up with me on a design-- any volunteers?