How does Impression 11A compare with Summit X?

I'm new to this forum and electrostatic speakers generally, having been weaned away from box speakers to horns. I currently use Avantgarde Uno speakers, but they are not sounding as good in my new home as my previous one. Perhaps electrostatics are the answer!

My question here is about the relative performance of the discontinued Summit X and the current Impression 11A model. They seem to use panels of almost identical size but the biggest difference appears to be with the bass enclosure. The Summit X seems to have a smaller cabinet fitted with forward and downward firing 10" drivers, whereas the 11A has a larger cabinet with forwards and backwards firing 8" drivers.

I've listened to the Summit X and was favourably impressed but hearing the new model will be more difficult. If anyone with first-hand experience of both could describe the differences in sound quality, I'd be very pleased. I gather the Summit X would fit somewhere between the Impression 11A and the Expression 13A in their intended market, but I'm hoping perhaps that the 11A is as good (or possibly better) sounding than the Summit X despite the smaller drivers. So discounting price, which to go for if both available new? Thanks. Peter

Peter, IMO the apples to apples comparison (based on $$) would be to that of the 13a, to which I give a hands down nod to the newer 13a's.

Hopefully Alan (sleepy surf) will chime in since he recently moved from Summits to the 13a's

twich54 said:

Peter, IMO the apples to apples comparison (based on $$) would be to that of the 13a, to which I give a hands down nod to the newer 13a's.

Hopefully Alan (sleepy surf) will chime in since he recently moved from Summits to the 13a's

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The Summit X's are being cleared out at 50% off or about $7500 right now. That is probably why he is comparing with the 11a.

twich54 said:

Peter, IMO the apples to apples comparison (based on $$) would be to that of the 13a, to which I give a hands down nod to the newer 13a's.

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Yes, I'd ideally like to get the 13A but the price (particularly here in UK - £17,000) is a bit steep. If I could be convinced that the 11A was very near as good as the Summit X, I may take the plunge! Or I could get an ex demo Summit X (with no choice of finish) or even import a close-out one from the US and get the voltage changed - all for a more sensible price. Peter

RCHeliGuy said:

The Summit X's are being cleared out at 50% off or about $7500 right now. That is probably why he is comparing with the 11a.

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Absolutely right! I've seen Summit X for $8500 but perhaps you could Private Message me with details of the $7500 clearance deal? Many thanks. Peter

Hear Here said:

Absolutely right! I've seen Summit X for $8500 but perhaps you could Private Message me with details of the $7500 clearance deal? Many thanks. Peter

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Understood Peter, at $7500 the Summit X is a no brainer, hopefully Mark can get you some info

PM sent.

I would have been interested at that price, but I simply don't have the room and I have to carry them up and down a floor twice a year and my Ethos are just manageable at their weight and girth.

The Impressions have the same panel area as the Summit X, so the mids and highs, and soundstage width/depth should be pretty similar. Not sure if the Impressions dual 8" woofers + ARC would be the equivalent of the Summit's dual 10" woofers, as I never auditioned the Impressions.

IMHO, the Expressions, with their larger panels, offer a wider soundstage and "sweet spot" vs. the Summits, with significantly better bass integration as well. However, overall bass response is very room and speaker/listening position dependent. That being the case, a discounted pair of Summit X +/- one or two subs (if desired) would likely be comparable to the Impressions alone. From an aesthetic standpoint, I prefer the Summit X styling, and the adjustable Summit leg assembly is also much better than the simple spikes on the new Masterpiece series.

sleepysurf said:

The Impressions have the same panel area as the Summit X, so the mids and highs, and soundstage width/depth should be pretty similar. Not sure if the Impressions dual 8" woofers + ARC would be the equivalent of the Summit's dual 10" woofers, as I never auditioned the Impressions.

IMHO, the Expressions, with their larger panels, offer a wider soundstage and "sweet spot" vs. the Summits, with significantly better bass integration as well. However, overall bass response is very room and speaker/listening position dependent. That being the case, a discounted pair of Summit X +/- one or two subs (if desired) would likely be comparable to the Impressions alone. From an aesthetic standpoint, I prefer the Summit X styling, and the adjustable Summit leg assembly is also much better than the simple spikes on the new Masterpiece series.

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Interesting. If the ELS part of the speakers (Summit X and 11A) are likely to be similar, then I'd probably be happy as I've heard and been impressed by the Summits. The bass is possibly the biggest difference. The Summit has 2 x 10" units (I believe in the same box), with one firing downwards. The 11A has 2 x 8" units in separate boxes with one firing backwards. The combined volume of the 11A twin cabinets appears to be appreciably greater than the Summit.

Now, one has to presume that ML have changed from downwards firing to backwards firing for good reason and similarly for increasing the cabinet volume and dividing it into 2 chambers. The fact that the 11A is 7 Kg or 20% heavier than the Summit X (despite the smaller drive units), implies there's more engineering in the bass box. Whether 2 x 10" units can operate at their optimum in such a small box as the Summit X is a point to consider. My own speakers are Avantgarde Unos that have 2 x 10" units in a much larger box than either the Summit or 11A - or 13A for that matter - so maybe 2 x 8" units would actually sound better until one gets to the low 20s frequencies? I live in a flat where neighbour considerations discourage excessive bass levels so I'm wary of emphasising these very low frequencies - and downwards firing may add to the problem!

I personally don't much like the look of the Summit bass box with its non-flat top that slopes forwards. The taller, deeper, flatter box of the 11A appears from photos more attractive - to me.

The 11A comes with Room Correction too. Although I presume this really only addresses the relatively low frequencies around and below the 300 Hz crossover, it should be a big advantage in my difficult room. I'm warming towards the 11A, particularly as it's about the same price as Summit X if I was to secure a clearance pair and have them shipped and converted to 240 V operation.

So far, all prompting Plus Points to the 11A. If anyone could offer Plus Points for the Summit X I'd be open to that route, but only if I can be convinced by those who've heard both that the Summit X is in fact a better speaker. The other consideration is the 13A which is presumably appreciably better than either - but 50% more costly! Thanks. Peter

I believe the magic in the masterpiece series is the integration of bass with the panel. Trying as hard as I can with many different types of music, I cannot identify any discontinuity in the crossover region on my new classic 9's. They also integrate better into my room than any previous speakers I have owned. Very musical and non resonant with deeper bass than the specifications would imply.

FLT said:

I believe the magic in the masterpiece series is the integration of bass with the panel. Trying as hard as I can with many different types of music, I cannot identify any discontinuity in the crossover region on my new classic 9's. They also integrate better into my room than any previous speakers I have owned. Very musical and non resonant with deeper bass than the specifications would imply.

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Agreed, but Alan points out a few plusses for the older Summit X and for me I would think the close out pricing is a deal maker allowing one the extra $$ (if needed) to add a sub or two for the final bass integration of ones room, again, if need be.

No in the same league in my opinion.. A DSP bass Vrs the standard powered bass.. Looks wise the Impression .. Never warmed up to the angled look of the Summits! I did listen to them extensively and they did play bigger than they look

I bought my Summit Xs in November. the 50% off was a no brainer. I couldn't be happier.

I think I'll wait five years until the Expressions are on closeout for 50% off to upgrade my Summits. I would say the Renaissance, but I think they may be a little too much for my room. For now, I'm just enjoying the Summits. :rocker:

Hear Hear, love that user name btw ! ML's all have that sound, I kinda miss the magic my old Sequels had, very early ones, Jim Power built the crossovers on the line in those days. Summits are spectacular performers, the 11's or even the 13's will give you a smidge more...is it worth the extra $$'s? Only you know in the end. As others have said, the X's at the going rate are a no-brainer. You have that spectacular flat with floor to ceiling windows and looks are important to you as well as the sound.

I personally think the bass cab and slope back panel on the Summits make them look like a piece of art that makes lovely, near perfect sound. Yeah, they are yesterdays news in looks in the ML line, I'm a car guy, to me they are the Bill Mitchell designed '63 Buick Riviera, surface tension, razor edges, nice from any angle. The Riv was a redo of classic custom body coachwork from the 30's and 40's. Just my nickel on the looks stuff.

Stuwee, the "63 Riv is one of the most beautiful American car designs of all time. They were probably not made that well as were most US cars of the time. I watch "Bring a Trailer" and eBay, etc. I can't remember one ever coming for sale.

Alan

stuwee said:

Hear Hear, love that user name btw ! ML's all have that sound, I kinda miss the magic my old Sequels had, very early ones, Jim Power built the crossovers on the line in those days. Summits are spectacular performers, the 11's or even the 13's will give you a smidge more...is it worth the extra $$'s? Only you know in the end. As others have said, the X's at the going rate are a no-brainer. You have that spectacular flat with floor to ceiling windows and looks are important to you as well as the sound.

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My problem with ML here in UK is that Summit Xs are not available on the Clearance market. Used ones are available but the X version from about £9K - $10ish. New 11A price went up a staggering £2K in November to £12K and the 13A even more - now £17K - about $20K!

I have to look towards the 11A despite my room really needing the 13A I suspect and I also have to look at the alternative offering from Quad - the ESL2912 - which is £8K - still too new for used examples. All these prices include UK taxes. Used Quad 2905 (very similar to 2912) can be found from around £2500.

Having recently listened to a friend's 2905 speakers, I'm mightily impressed. These are full range electrostatics with remarkably good bass. I live in a flat where excessive low frequencies are not ideal for neighbour relationships, so the Quads are sadly now at the top of my list, despite my aesthetic preference for the much narrower and more transparent ML designs.

Ouch! 10K ish for used? Not so much of a gap between the X's and the 11's. Any dealers over there willing to let you try in your home with a nice refundable deposit? Can your friend bring the Quads over? Remember you loved the Uno's and when you moved, they didn't do 'it' anymore. You have an interesting room, lot's going on, long solid wall on one side, glass wall farther away on the other, ton's of air behind.

Did you contact the member here selling the X's at the discount price? I can't imagine shipping being more than $1.5K. I guarantee you will not be disappointed with the sound, those Quads are rare here in the desert SW US, I know nothing about them other than good reviews. 'Stats need to be heard in the room you will use them in...ok, yes, I bought mine on ebay without hearing them first, I know a good room when I'm in it for ML's, size, sound 'dead to live' wise, clap hands all around, the real estate agents think they might keep their cell close to dial 911, thinking you're a nutter. I was Loganless when I got my house, knew as soon as I walked in I'd have ML's in the front room someday again.

Get those Quads in there and listen, have fun!! :music:

stuwee said:

Did you contact the member here selling the X's at the discount price? I can't imagine shipping being more than $1.5K. I guarantee you will not be disappointed with the sound, those Quads are rare here in the desert SW US, I know nothing about them other than good reviews. 'Stats need to be heard in the room you will use them in...ok, yes, I bought mine on ebay without hearing them first, I know a good room when I'm in it for ML's, size, sound 'dead to live' wise, clap hands all around, the real estate agents think they might keep their cell close to dial 911, thinking you're a nutter. I was Loganless when I got my house, knew as soon as I walked in I'd have ML's in the front room someday again.

Get those Quads in there and listen, have fun!! :music:

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Trouble with importing from the US dealer:

1. there are not allowed to sell into other markets with local distributor, although they may bend the rules with clearance items
2. the transformers would need to be changed or modified to 240V.
3. the UK distributor (who hasn't made anything on the deal) may also be reluctant to repair under warranty

Unless the Summit X was significantly better than the new 11A with its room correction ability, I think the importing route would be inadvisable.

The guy with the Quads is visiting me on Wednesday with a chum who is a bit of a tweeker and bringing some better cables. Hopefully we can get the Unos sounding better, but I can't ask him to bring his bulky and very carefully set up Quads over. However, there are 2 used pairs in local dealers. I'm sure I could buy these on a return-if-not-satisfied basis.

With used Quad 2905s selling here for between £2500 to £3000, the ML prices seem daft. I've found Summit (not X) for £4000 with slight (but unacceptable to me) damage and another pair for £4500. I'd certainly prefer to see MLs in my living room rather than Quads, but perhaps the Quad route as my first electrostatic may be a better idea.

Interesting to visit this thread as I am now entertaining demo summit x vs new 11a. I currently have dual piano black SVS SB13 Ultra subs but I also just picked up a beautiful black ash descent I locally and haven’t decided what to do with it yet (to complicate matters). Anybody else with an upgraded opinion 18 months later?