Upgrading System Montis or Summit Perhaps?

Greetings!
I am a beginner into the world of hifi but have spent a lot of time reading and planning my somewhat low budget (by hifi standards) setup. Any advice is welcomed!!

I have begun upgrading my system over the last few months and now I am at the point of selecting my new speakers. I currently own a pair of the entry level Electromotions. Though these are ok speakers I find them to get somewhat too sharp and abrasive in the upper mids and lower highs. This is especially evident when playing music That "gets busy" in that range. My musical interests definitely cover some ground. I listen to a good bit of "Album Rock" such as Yes, Pink Floyd etc. I also enjoy listening to jazz, blues and music that features female vocalists. Another genre you'll see in my collection is a fair amount of Classical music especially violin concertos and music featuring harpsichord. I just love that plucked string sound!

For the most part I love the electrostatic panels but at least with the lower end Electromotions, the overerly bright, edgy sound can be fatiguing. My question is a simple one. Will upgrading to a speaker such as the Montis or possibly the Summit soften and warm up the mids particularly the upper mids and lower highs? Or should I perhaps look at another speaker besides electrostatics.

My Room:
18ft x 12ft with 8ft ceilings
GIK TriTraps floor to ceiling in corners
GIK Quadratic Diffussors behind speakers
Alternating GIK Quadratic Diffussors and GIK 2" Absorbers on side walls
GIK Quadratic Diffussors on back wall.

My gear:
PrimaLuna Dialogue 7 monoblocks
PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium Preamp
Sony HAP Z1es (DSD/FLAC) Player
Martin Logan Electromotions
REL T9i Sub (splits duty with LFE for HT)
Blue Jean Cables and Interconnects

Speakers are just shy of 4ft from front wall and 21" from side walks. This seems to give me AMAZING soundstage and minimizes the harshness of the upper mids.

Thanks in advance for any opinions and help that is given!
L101

Sounds like you have got a pretty good setup. I'm not familiar with the sound of the electromotions, so I can't say if a larger speaker would be less harsh. I'm kind of surprised that they are, honestly. Electrostats can be ruthlessly revealing of upstream components, but they are rarely harsh with tube gear.

One thing you may want to consider is replacing the quadratic diffusors with two-way ones. The quadratic a will reflect frequencies to the ceiling and floors and back to the listener. Particularly with your low ceilings, you may be getting too much high frequencies reflected back. I experimented with quadratic diffusors behind my Summits and the sound was a little harsh compared to the two-way diffusers I have now. Also, if you can pull the panels a little further out into the room, that may help. Just some ideas off the top of my head.

One nice thing about the bigger speakers with powered woofers is that your amp just has to power the panels, which takes a lot of strain off the amp and will improve the sound.

Edit: I just looked up the Dialogue 7's and it appears they are 70 wpc. In that case, I think you would really benefit from upgrading to a larger speaker with a powered woofer section. I know that I got much better sound from bi-amping my Ascents with SS amp on the woofers than when I ran the whole speaker off my CJ Premier 140 tube amp (and it puts out 140 wpc). It also sounds superb in my current setup with my Summits. Taking the tube amp off of woofer duty really helps with complex music and rock music turned up loud. This may very well take care of the harshness you hear.

As for the diffuser behind your speakers, I would recommend the GIK Q7d diffusers. And get the speakers as far away from them as you can manage. 5' or more is ideal, but that can be difficult in smaller rooms.

Does seem like a really nice system. Can you post a picture.

Yah that system doesn't 'read' harsh. The Sony is known for smooth. As are the prima Lunas. What ohm tap do you have the electromotions running off of ? Have you tried the different taps which I believe the dialogue 7 has (4 vs 8 ohm) ? Is it harsh for really good recordings ?

Great advice Rich, thank you! The diffusers I'm using are the Q7d's once I installed them (front wall and rear) I actually noticed a a bit of mellowing. I have not treated the ceilings at all as of now but may. I must admit that it's possible that it's something upstream mainly the recording perhaps that is responsible for what I call harshness. The problem probably isn't as devastating as I may have led on but it's noticable on a fair amount of stuff I've listened to. I actually am quite fond of the sound of most of the stuff i listen to. It's just once in a while i run across something that grates on my nerves. Being relatively new I may be over reacting. But I am looking to upgrade and the Montis is looking like a good choice if I can find a pair at a reasonable price. The Summits may be just out of my reach.

Thank you for the "smart" reply. It's very much appreciated!!
L101

@ Adeep42 -I most certainly will once I put the room back together. It's getting some drywall work and fresh paint!

timm I'm running on the 4 ohm tap. It isn't harsh on all music. It's most egregious during a passage of 2 screaming guitars or also on some organ passages. As Rich pointed out It's possible that its upstream and not the speakers at all. I'm leading toward the possibility that certain recordings whether DSD or not just may suck!
I'm still interested in anyone's thoughts/opinions on Montis and or Summits. I've read that the slightly larger panel warms things up a bit! That's exciting to me.

L101

L101 said:

Great advice Rich, thank you! The diffusers I'm using are the Q7d's once I installed them (front wall and rear) I actually noticed a a bit of mellowing. I have not treated the ceilings at all as of now but may. I must admit that it's possible that it's something upstream mainly the recording perhaps that is responsible for what I call harshness. The problem probably isn't as devastating as I may have led on but it's noticable on a fair amount of stuff I've listened to. I actually am quite fond of the sound of most of the stuff i listen to. It's just once in a while i run across something that grates on my nerves. Being relatively new I may be over reacting. But I am looking to upgrade and the Montis is looking like a good choice if I can find a pair at a reasonable price. The Summits may be just out of my reach.

Thank you for the "smart" reply. It's very much appreciated!!
L101

Click to expand...

Ok, you've got the Q7d's. Those are great diffusers. For some reason I assumed you had the kind that reflect up and down as well as side to side. Try to make sure that the speakers are positioned and aimed such that the center of the rear wave is lined up to the center of the diffuser. This way the rear wave should spread across the entirety of the diffuser before it reflects, giving maximum performance from the diffuser. I wish you luck in finding a good pair of Montis for a reasonable price. Let us know what you think once you get them. I think you'll be surprised how much better your amps sound once they are relieved of woofer duty and just have to power the panels. It should sound effortless, with great dynamics.

If after that you still have any harshness, you may want to think about some tube rolling. That's one way to dial in the sound you want from your system.

@ Rich - Once again a solid reply Rich. It may be several months before I pull the trigger on the Montis. Was hoping to upgrade the speakers right away but as luck would have it my furnace gave up the ghost after only 13 yrs of service so I spent my speaker loot on a new one. Also giving the room some fresh paint. Shouldn't be too long before my search for a pair intensifies though. Things at my job tend to get rather busy in late spring and early summer which provides ample overtime dollars that will go into the "mad money" account. With ML now having phased out the Summits and Montis line I'm hoping a few pop up on the used market as current owners upgrade to the new line. You see on my budget I have to be ready to pick up the scraps when they are there!! You are also correct with regards to rolling in some different tubes for the purpose of tweaking the sound. I haven't as of yet, but I will certainly keep that in the tool bag!

Thanks again for your thoughts!

L101

Just a thought about Montis and Summit X's. There are still some very cheap new ones out there for 1/2 the original price due to ML's move to their latest series of electrostatics. For sure I would put the furnace first.