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dunnerdoitmon

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Jan 1, 2017
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Location
Powys, Wales, United Kingdom
Hi Everyone,
I'm a new member living 'out in the sticks' in Powys, a county in Wales in the UK and I've been a proud owner of Martin Logan Summits for many years. Although they've been infuriatingly frustrating to live with in the past, mainly because of ineptitude and inexperience on my part, issues to do with positioning and partnering equipment have played a crucial role in getting them to sing.

I hope to share some of these issues with you in the coming months. However, what I would like to say from the outset is that these speakers are scintillatingly and utterly incredible. They play a critical part in what I think (and others think) is a stunning system. Over many years at UK audio shows or elsewhere, I've never heard anything as enjoyable, eye opening or frightening. BUT, you DO have to get some things right first and that's what I hope to write to you about.

Happy new year.
 
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The time and effort spent "dialing them in" is well worth it! They are truly incredible transducers! I suggest the "Jim Smith/Get Better Sound" approach of moving them forwards or backwards 1/2" - 1" at a time until you get best imaging and bass response possible. You can also play with rake angle (more vertical gives more dynamics and brighter mids and highs). I also recommend room response measurements (XTZ Room Analyzer Pro, REW, Parts Express Omnimic, etc.) PLUS listening, to optimize their performance.
 
Hola from Costa Rica. I am too, a happy owner of this fabulous Summits. Its an audiophile dream to have it. If you know about low frequency, this model offers to you to get an incredible and detail bass...as having the bass player at the stage, with the right bass energy to your golden seat position. The Summits are a jewel to use. To my liking and ears, one of the best product that ML had released. Yes, I do know...newer models are better, but these babies can truly sing too.
Happy listening!
 
Greetings again.
To update my original post (1st Jan 2017)....... A friend confirmed what I thought - my system used to be good, but inconsistent. Now it is consistently brilliant. So what's happened ? A significant part of the turn around was good luck and chance rather than skill or intent, which is why I thought some of you might be interested. There's a lot of information to relay so I thought I'd update periodically. I'll start with my experience of smoke, floor and destructive bass.

Firstly, my Summits are the originals (not X stat) but I had new X stat panels supplied by Absolute Sounds and fitted by a local dealer. Although the dealer isn't an authorised ML supplier, the team, who'd had many years of experience working on many other brands including ESL's said they were some of the best made speakers they'd ever seen. The panels had to be replaced because I damaged them.

Smoke
Don't subject ESL's to smoke or fumes of any sort ! A symptom of smoke damage is dull sound. Vacuuming provides temporary relief and you can get away with smoke contamination a few times only, after which the damage is permanent. At the time I watched several You-Tube clips of 'washing' the membranes. I didn't think it was worth it as the replacement panels cost a reasonable £1,000 or so.

If you have a tendency to burn food in the kitchen, close the kitchen door and get an extractor fan fitted.

In the room the speakers are in... 1. Don't burn candles or incense. 2. If you have a stove, make sure its a good one that doesn't smoke. 3. Don't smoke.

I did all these things, ie bought a decent stove, fitted an extractor fan and banished hippies. The smoke contamination was the first factor contributing to the inconsistent sound.

Floor.
The Summits used to sit on spikes on an uneven quarry tile floor, the tiles themselves lying on a bed of ash (19th century cottage). Levelling was by spike adjustment. Using coins and other objects between spikes and floor destroyed the sound. I think there is a lot we don't yet know about the interaction of speakers and floor, a topic which I think is critical to good sound.

I followed the usual positioning and tuning rules, eg manufacturers handbook, flashlight, move 1/2 inch at a time, tilting and bass level controls, plus levelling due to uneven floor. I can only re-iterate what others have said and would add - Don't ever judge ML ESL's unless they are properly positioned and set up.


Destructive Bass
A problem I had two years ago was destructive bass. Bass notes were like a ton weight hitting the floor, no boom or bloom, just tight, fast, pile driving bass. You could feel the bass as well as hear it but it came more from the floor it seemed than through air. The energy would project along the tiles and up the body of the seated listener, like an electric shock. I often had to warn people before turning the volume up. It was exhilarating to some, frightening to others. Summits, I've been told are not supposed to do this, but they most definitely do !

This was fine except that with the volume loud... 1) The speakers gradually moved along the floor (the second factor contributing to the inconsistent sound) and 2) plaster would fall off the wall and ceiling from the back of the room. The system was destroying my house !

The Summits are now standing in their original positions but with spikes removed atop Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Podiums. These, although expensive for what they are, have the effect of ameliorating the bass. It's still there but it's not as destructive. You now feel it less through the floor and more through the air. However, the tamed bass is compensated for by an even clearer, more transparent and focused sound. Detail retrieval is better but all the fun and timing and musicality is still there. The Podiums are definitely having a beneficial effect. And my house is still standing.

More to follow.
 
Welcome dunner! You have an unusual situation living in an old cottage *jealous*, I had mine on the short wall to make the s/o happy, and then moved them to the long wall, with 5+ feet away from the side walls and 3 foot from the back wall did wonders for the soundstage. My pre amp and sources are low near the stage left speaker, it's amazing how nice they sound in that near field when switching Lps and CDs, captivating, makes you really hear what they can do. Playing with placement is half the fun. You really need two friends to adjust the bass EQ pots while you listen and, if you trust their ears, switch places and confirm the bass. I've not heard of the Townsend SIP's.

Enjoy! Craig
 
Hi Craig,
Ah ! I'm sure a lot of us ended up doing the same thing independently, moving the speakers around and evaluating with more than one pair of ears. As you say, its amazing what these loudspeakers can do and how much joy and pleasure they bring. But I think they have more potential still, but we've still got to find it. Thank goodness for sites such as this where we can bounce ideas off each other.

The podiums do work but they are expensive. I had to wait several months for mine but they were only just coming onto the market at the time. I hope the company's turnaround time is better these days. The web link is..... http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi...e-cinema-vibration-isolation-speaker-podiums/

I suppose the ultimate solution for my destructive bass problem would have been to strengthen the house or put more resilient plaster on the walls. It would be exciting though to hear the so called 'destructive' bass again, but I wouldn't want to lose the extra clarity the podiums bring. I've been thinking of cutting a hole in the platforms of each stand to allow the downward facing bass cone to fire through and onto the floor. Perhaps that might give me the best of both worlds but without the speakers spikes being directly coupled to the floor ? I'll have to think about that.

I've also had a lot of experience with sub-woofers which I'll write about in my next instalment. Its something you wouldn't normally do but in my case it worked !

Oh, I just have to add that the sound of 'destructive' bass was quite pleasant, as long as I had forewarning of being scared witless. Quite different from the unpleasant effects of a transistor / conventional box/cone speaker system I had 20 years ago which when played loud, scared my neighbours hens and stopped them laying eggs !

Kind regards
Bob (Dunnerdoitmon)
 

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