Subs/summit

Do u feel it is necessary to have subwoofers with the summits With music? Now I have one on each summit xover at 35hz

Absolutely not. If the Summits are tuned correctly with the room, preferably with sufficient acoustic bass traps, they provide an excellent bass response. They are more than sufficient without a sub. I own a ML Descent subwoofer, but don't use it with my Summits. I have it connected to a separate home theater system. I am always amazed at the bass response of the Summits in my 2-channel music system. They produce deep, tuneful bass with serious impact on the transients. A plucked double bass sounds like it should and a kick drum has the impact you expect. Obviously, a lot will depend on the room and your ability to tune the bass response in your setup. But in my setup, after much experimentation, I prefer them without a sub and couldn't be happier with the bass response. Granted I also have over a dozen bass traps in my 14'x19' room, so that helps even out the response.

It really depends on the room. The big advantage of an outboard sub is the ability to properly place and tune it. It is practically impossible to place the speakers in the right spot for balance, imaging, and bass.

Hocky said:

It really depends on the room. The big advantage of an outboard sub is the ability to properly place and tune it. It is practically impossible to place the speakers in the right spot for balance, imaging, and bass.

Click to expand...

Agree. VERY room dependant. I have a major 50-60 Hz null at the sweet spot (no other options for speaker/listening positions), so ended up adding two BF210 subs to my Summits, which really smoothed things out. I've since upgraded to the Expressions, but still have that null. Will likely keep the subs even with the ARC capability of the Expressions. Conversely, I've heard Summit/X in other rooms, and they absolutely didn't need subs.

Hola. Mines are used without sub while listening to the music. They provide plenty bass energy. Also, when watching movies, I use full range at the set up, and I cut the sub at 80 Hz. This is for the low frequency info. I do love what I hear.
Happy listening!

Hocky said:

It really depends on the room. The big advantage of an outboard sub is the ability to properly place and tune it. It is practically impossible to place the speakers in the right spot for balance, imaging, and bass.

Click to expand...

I agree that it depends on the room, but it also depends on how far you are willing/able to go with acoustic treatments. In a dedicated room with sufficient bass traps, it really isn't that difficult to place the speakers for balance, imaging, and bass response. Without bass traps, it becomes much more difficult and subs can be necessary to achieve an even response. But even with subs, you will likely have issues in a lot of rooms without bass trapping.

khenegar said:

Do u feel it is necessary to have subwoofers with the summits With music? Now I have one on each summit xover at 35hz

Click to expand...

Only you can be the best judge of what kind of sonics please the most.

Summit X reach all the way down to 24Hz. Each loudspeaker has 2, 10 inch aluminum woofers powered by dual max. Output 200 watt amplifiers. From the above specs alone seems that this loudspeaker will not shortchange in regard of bass quantity.

Khenegar if you operate the ML's full range and cut the sub at 35 hertz you will listen or rather feel much bass energy. Excessive perhaps but nothing incorrect with this approach if you like bass intensive sonics. If I am not mistaken you will not be listening close to the original studio recording.

However, to conclude I would assert the goal in listening to music is to arrive at or achieve at best the original studio recording sound imbued on CD, SACD, LP, DSD or DXD.

There may be overkill in regard of low frequency with 2 additional subs.

Some very good suggestions for room acoustic treatment. May take your system to a much improved level and hence be the missing link.

In final analysis yourself have to be happy with system acoustics not external third party. Though critical suggestions for improvement are always welcome.

Rich said:

Absolutely not. If the Summits are tuned correctly with the room, preferably with sufficient acoustic bass traps, they provide an excellent bass response. They are more than sufficient without a sub. I own a ML Descent subwoofer, but don't use it with my Summits. I have it connected to a separate home theater system. I am always amazed at the bass response of the Summits in my 2-channel music system. They produce deep, tuneful bass with serious impact on the transients. A plucked double bass sounds like it should and a kick drum has the impact you expect. Obviously, a lot will depend on the room and your ability to tune the bass response in your setup. But in my setup, after much experimentation, I prefer them without a sub and couldn't be happier with the bass response. Granted I also have over a dozen bass traps in my 14'x19' room, so that helps even out the response.

Click to expand...

I agree with rich. I have never felt the summits wanting for bass. Bass on the summits is very impactful in my opinion.