adeep42
Well-known member
There's a virtually brand new set of15As 0n Audiogon for $17,500 in Florida. Couldn't pass the WAF. So sad.
Alan
Alan
ESL 15A, 13A, 11A Reviews?
- Thread starter rpokuls
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Joey_V
Well-known member
I would be interested in the 11A.
Seems like a good product.
Seems like a good product.
Having heard them I think they are damn nice .. Considering what you are offered in that range its not that bad a deal as they do everything well
RE: Crossovers
I've been saying this for years, higher is better as long as you can cover the mid-bass well.
The Monolith original passive was 125, but I run my active crossover at 314Hz 24dB/LR. So even the biggest panel in the line works best up there. Even so, I still see the mylar moving during loud passages.
I believe the new series was able to substantially improve mid-bass coverage thanks to the use of an active low-pass crossover + DSP corrections to make the blend with the passive high-pass crossover to the panels as seamless as possible (although an active/active would be even better, but adds upstream complexity).
Moving the crossover point up means there is less dipole cancellation in the mid-bass, so the speakers have more 'weight' in the bass. The panels can also play louder close to the crossover point with less THD.
This also probably eases the load on the amp driving the panel, and depending on amp, could improve the sound quality a bit from that end as well.
Then add some room correction and now the bass and mid-bass are adapted to the specific installation context, which then allows the rest of the speaker to really shine.
So I'm not surprised in the least they have raised the crossover points, as it's what works best IF you can manage the performance of the woofer section and its blend with the panel. With active Xovers and DSP, they now can.
I've been saying this for years, higher is better as long as you can cover the mid-bass well.
The Monolith original passive was 125, but I run my active crossover at 314Hz 24dB/LR. So even the biggest panel in the line works best up there. Even so, I still see the mylar moving during loud passages.
I believe the new series was able to substantially improve mid-bass coverage thanks to the use of an active low-pass crossover + DSP corrections to make the blend with the passive high-pass crossover to the panels as seamless as possible (although an active/active would be even better, but adds upstream complexity).
Moving the crossover point up means there is less dipole cancellation in the mid-bass, so the speakers have more 'weight' in the bass. The panels can also play louder close to the crossover point with less THD.
This also probably eases the load on the amp driving the panel, and depending on amp, could improve the sound quality a bit from that end as well.
Then add some room correction and now the bass and mid-bass are adapted to the specific installation context, which then allows the rest of the speaker to really shine.
So I'm not surprised in the least they have raised the crossover points, as it's what works best IF you can manage the performance of the woofer section and its blend with the panel. With active Xovers and DSP, they now can.
Joey_V
Well-known member
I have heard them once, will go back and listen, but they have the ML sound I'm familiar with.
sleepysurf
Well-known member
Here's the online link for Jon Iverson's Renaissance review in S'phile... http://www.stereophile.com/content/...sance-esl-15a-loudspeaker#A4JAXZOggGkyHj0B.97
Nutshell
Well-known member
Dagogo has a review for the Expression 13A: http://www.dagogo.com/martinlogan-expression-esl-13a-hybrid-electrostatic-speaker-review
Treble Clef
Member
Stereophile is saying that the Expression model is far better than "my" Montis... Can anyone confirm or comment?
while I can't confirm it, those that can are merely stating their opinion (just like Stereophile). Therefore I suspect only your ears can be the judge. FWIW, my money is on a definite improvement over your Montis. As for the 'far better' part .....................
sleepysurf
Well-known member
The new Masterpiece models should be better than their predecessors. My new Expression 13A's are a definite step up from my old Legacy Summits, but overall performance is still very room (acoustics) dependant. For example, despite the Expressions superb bass integration, I'm still using dual subs to fill in a 50-60 Hz null at my listening position.
I actually thought the 11 sounded so close to my Odyssey's that I was in no real hurry to rush out for them. That being said ,..1. Either my odyssey are set up right and performing over their ability ! OR, 2 They DSP was doing a great job on the 11a as the room was really horrid and the set up was marginal.. Like I said , If I was buying 10K speakers I would SERIOUSLY consider them... My ONLY beef is WHY DID THEY NOT MAKE CURVED FRONT WOOFER GRILL COVERS
sleepysurf
Well-known member
Here's another review of the Expression 13A's... http://hometheaterreview.com/martinlogan-expression-esl-13a-floorstanding-speaker-reviewed/
Finally got around to hearing a member of the Masterpiece lineup yesterday, the Expression. In a word .......WOW ! Driven by a McIntosh front end (601 mono blocks) and properly set up (as Overture always does) they were simply the best hybrid stats I've heard to date. I know Chris (C.A.P) was not impressed with what he heard in the 11's but it obvious the dealer demoing them was working with a less than ideal room.
The 13A's that I listened to clearly demonstrated the most coherent panel to woofer integration to date, so good to these old ears that for me I can safely say I could not of heard better, It was simply seamless.
Am I rushing out to sell my Revel's....... nope. But if one were in the market for speakers in the 15k price range and had the room to properly set these babies up they will be rewarded with some of Logan's best sound to date, without question. Alan, I know you're a 'Happy Camper' !
The 13A's that I listened to clearly demonstrated the most coherent panel to woofer integration to date, so good to these old ears that for me I can safely say I could not of heard better, It was simply seamless.
Am I rushing out to sell my Revel's....... nope. But if one were in the market for speakers in the 15k price range and had the room to properly set these babies up they will be rewarded with some of Logan's best sound to date, without question. Alan, I know you're a 'Happy Camper' !
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Its not that I wasn't impressed as I was.. I would have to step up pas the 11's before I feel the gain past the Odyssey I own.. The DSP DEFINATELY works as the room as I stated was HORID.. I have two issues . 1. The front flat grill cover should be curved to match the panels.. 2. The rather Box looking appearance of the rear section.. I did say I like a big back side..
I Think they 15 would really shine in a larger room.. The whole line is room size dependent of rooms.. Smaller room and a bigger speaker will overload it.. What I have found this time around with my Odyssey is that You tune the room to the speakers.. Placement of speakers to chair.. I have found the back wall(behind you) can be your friend.. You can get some lost bass back as well as bloom .. Panels have a huse sound some excel better in areas as new x overs and such but a Mylar panel is a Mylar panel anyway you slice it.. How its filtered and blended is what they are advancing..
I Think they 15 would really shine in a larger room.. The whole line is room size dependent of rooms.. Smaller room and a bigger speaker will overload it.. What I have found this time around with my Odyssey is that You tune the room to the speakers.. Placement of speakers to chair.. I have found the back wall(behind you) can be your friend.. You can get some lost bass back as well as bloom .. Panels have a huse sound some excel better in areas as new x overs and such but a Mylar panel is a Mylar panel anyway you slice it.. How its filtered and blended is what they are advancing..
Understood Chris but IMO for a dealer to try and showcase this line in anything but a stellar room (acoustically) is ridiculous. As for the onboard DSP, room correction, it plays second fiddle to a good room IMO.
Dave. I believe you have heard the 3.7 ? Not sure of the 20.7? Might you compare? The 20s are the best I have heard for my tastes.
Timm,
Yes I've heard the 3.7i's, although it's been awhile so memory fade will keep me from being accurate. Lets just say this, Both are great speakers, I think the bottom end on the Logans has greater presence. With the ribbon tweeter of the Maggie it is room / amplifier dependent. Both require patience in set up. Given that the Logan is a hybrid it places less of a demand on amplification. My general opinion has been since I've owned my Spires is that overall I prefer Logan but if the ribbon of the Maggie is controlled it is superb and at it's price point one could argue it performs much further beyond than does Martin Logan.
Yes I've heard the 3.7i's, although it's been awhile so memory fade will keep me from being accurate. Lets just say this, Both are great speakers, I think the bottom end on the Logans has greater presence. With the ribbon tweeter of the Maggie it is room / amplifier dependent. Both require patience in set up. Given that the Logan is a hybrid it places less of a demand on amplification. My general opinion has been since I've owned my Spires is that overall I prefer Logan but if the ribbon of the Maggie is controlled it is superb and at it's price point one could argue it performs much further beyond than does Martin Logan.
Stefan_DR3
Well-known member
Is ARC not able to compensate?
