The 2016 US Presidential Debate

While I am slightly biased on this issue of who should be our next president, I'm intelligent enough to keep an open mind. I'll be watching very closely to the answers and the body language. I would like to hear more information on the plans on numerous subjects. I swear to God, I'll be unbiased in my posts on what they say, if Hillary says something great, I'll respond to that, same for Donald.

I'm looking forward to the comments and, hearing from our members overseas as well!!

stuwee said:

While I am slightly biased on this issue of who should be our next president, I'm intelligent enough to keep an open mind. I'll be watching very closely to the answers and the body language. I would like to hear more information on the plans on numerous subjects. I swear to God, I'll be unbiased in my posts on what they say, if Hillary says something great, I'll respond to that, same for Donald.

I'm looking forward to the comments and, hearing from our members overseas as well!!

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It will be interesting. My thoughts are that the bar for Trump is pretty low and that if he behaves in a civilized way he will get far more credit than he deserves. However if he decides to talk over Hillary and be a bully like many expect, he will be applauded by many for that as well.

Historically the presidential debates have had little impact on the outcome of a presidential election, but this election cycle is so far outside the norm that it is hard to say what will matter anymore.

i am not sure i will watch... maybe just the highlights tomorrow morning.. I hope too that Trump shows some class and doesn't do the whole bully thing.. I want to hear his plans for the country and not his usual "It'll be great, trust me" bullsh1t.

I found this recently and what was funny listening to this was how congenial they all sounded.

Ross Perot was making some of the same points as Trump, but was lumping both the Democrats and Republicans in together as being the problem.

What is really funny is that they were calling "THAT" campaign the worst on record with attack ads etc.. 1992... We've come a long way in 24 year. Too bad it was in the wrong direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg9qB_BIjWY

I just finished watching this. What is amazing isn't only what has changed but the fact that EVERY SINGLE ISSUE they talked about 24 years ago is still an issue today.

Debt
Congressional term limits
Infrastructure
Gun reform
Healthcare reform ( tort reform )
Complaints that SS will be bankrupt by 2036
They mentioned a $500B S&L cost due to deregulation ( sound familiar?)
Should we be the World Police?
How do we create higher paying jobs?
Complaints that our healthcare and school systems are not giving us good bang for the buck compared to the rest of the world.

debate .................LOL for those of us that actually participated in such, these aren't 'debates' , rather a shouting match watched over by a group of useless moderators. perhaps Hillary and Donald will prove me wrong tonight ....................

1st, thank you Mark for that wonderful link from 1992. I was a Perot supporter, then realized I was throwing my vote away if I continued. I voted for Clinton, I really hated most of what Bush was going to do. One of the best things Perot was trying to do was eliminating the 'middle man' in politics. a kiosk in every town, city and county seat if in a rural area. The people vote on everything, every vote counts! Don't vote? Then you can't bitch about it later! The Electoral College is a freakin' joke! So many people say why bother, the decision has been made . And I don't blame them, it was right a looooong time ago, waaaay dated right now! The people should pick who is their next leader, not a bunch of whosits on a board..GRRRRRRRR!!!

2nd, I was very unhappy with how this debate turned out. Nothing really from either of them on the 'REAL' issues that concern the majority of US citizens!

3rd, I do give Hillary credit for a very successful debate, just as you would expect from a career politician , she was poised, articulate and respectful while Donald spoke...for the most part. She brought up many valid points on the economy, trade, international relations. I was impressed...but...only for a monment, we've heard this crap before, over and over! Kudo's to Donald for calling her on her $hit on my above points in her favor. "You've been doing this for 30 years, and you're just now coming up with a plan"? HaHa!

4th, Donald looked a hot mess, sipping water, snorting while speaking. These are things people pick up on!! whether they think about it or not, it's how we humans input things in our decision making process. He lost there big time! He looked and acted like a moron! He also brought up many good points, he was likeable when he was being serious and, I give him Kudo's for that. NAFTA, Trade, Immigration...he was spot on IMHO.

5th, in spite of her wonderful performance, I'll be Damned if I tick the box by her name!! God Help Us!! And not just us, the whole planet...like it or not world, the US does make a difference on many, many levels. Even in our weakened state...

What I saw was that Hillary won the debate.

However debates typically have little impact over who someone votes for. Right now thousands of people are posting/blogging etc about how their favorite candidate won the debate because of how they read it.

People see what they want to see.

I don't think either of them can solve many of our problems. Most of the issues are trends that can't be stopped.

What is left is damage control. Basically what do I think each of them is capable of mucking up while they are in office. Personally I think Trump is much more dangerous and could muck up a lot more. So I'll vote for Hillary. BTW my vote won't matter, because in TN Trump is twice as popular as Hillary. In fact neither candidate will waste their time in this state because it is a gimme for Trump. He will win TN by a landslide.

I see these debates as being no different from a football game.

People are rooting for their team to win, because everyone likes to win.
Everyone watches the game hoping their team wins.
Then win or lose at the end of the game they still support their team.

I would give Hillary the nod just because I think she was able to get under Trump's skin, but I don't think Trump made any gaffs that would change many minds. However, I also think Hillary was given some what the equivalent of a home field advantage or a handicap. Trump was asked about such issues like birtherism and whether or not he supported the Iraq war from the beginning, but Hillary's most controversial topics, such Benghazi, the "basket of deplorables", the Clinton Foundation, why 5 of her aides needed immunity in the email investigation, or even the email scandal itself- unless he asked about it when I flipped to the ball game, were not asked about. However, if Trump were a more skilled debater, he could have worked those topics in himself during other discussions, like he did about the emails. Still, I can't believe Lester didn't bring up at least a couple from that list.

I don't think the debates need to change that many minds to have an influence. In states in which there really is just a point or two difference between the two, a few minds is all it might take.

stuwee said:

The Electoral College is a freakin' joke!

4th, Donald looked a hot mess, sipping water, snorting while speaking.

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We agree Ken.

Electoral College. The election now comes down to 4 or 5 swing states. That is not democracy in my mind. My vote hasn't mattered for forty years.

DT. Add the "scowling" look on his face for the majority of time. CNN had a camera on each person's face for the entire debate.

Why was he uncomfortable? IMHO, he has always been the person " controlling" the discussion / situation. He no longer was last night and looked like a duck out of water. But of course, that was the moderator's fault.

No surprises for me in the end. Both did fine within their strengths / abilities.

Best,

Gordon

It is pretty sad how little most people's votes matter. Below is today's map showing how the electoral votes will be divided by state.

If you are not one of the very lightly colored states near the dividing line, your state is pretty well spoken for.

There is both negatives and positives to the electoral college, I wouldn't call it a joke. What would occur if a national vote came out really close. To verify a disputed count, we need to have a recount of votes in every precinct of the United States. Also, Colorado right now is close, but it isn't that populated of a state. Right now their vote matters, but if it were a national vote, perhaps no one would pay attention to the state. New York City alone I think is even more populated than a majority of the states.

It's interesting that Trump has dropped in the polls after the debate. I "assumed" the debate wouldn't have much impact. Then again maybe it is more how he has handled himself since then, complaining about his microphone, saying the moderator did a good job right after the debate and then later complaining about him, then saying the debate was rigged etc... He seems to be letting his cry baby out again and that never looks very good. All this talk about bringing up Bill's infidelities doesn't make much sense either since he is on his 3rd wife and has cheated on them too. Now attacking the former Miss Universe again? What is his deal?

RCHeliGuy said:

It's interesting that Trump has dropped in the polls after the debate. I "assumed" the debate wouldn't have much impact. Then again maybe it is more how he has handled himself since then, complaining about his microphone, saying the moderator did a good job right after the debate and then later complaining about him, then saying the debate was rigged etc... He seems to be letting his cry baby out again and that never looks very good. All this talk about bringing up Bill's infidelities doesn't make much sense either since he is on his 3rd wife and has cheated on them too. Now attacking the former Miss Universe again? What is his deal?

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It all depends on the poll I guess. But really he didn't do well at all and I think that is pretty much global consensus when u look at an over whelming majority of the polls on the debates. I think the fact that trump is still in the game speaks volumes about hillarys past record. The Detroit news is backing the libertarian candidate. Why. Because of trump. And because of hillarys past discressions and 'proven track record'

This is a farce.

Here is a snippet from the Detroit News - normally a republican leaning paper.

The 2016 nominee offered by the Republican Party rubs hard against the editorial board’s values as conservatives and Americans. Donald Trump is unprincipled, unstable and quite possibly dangerous. He can not be president.
His Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, has an impressive resume and a presidential bearing. And although we disagree with her nearly across the board on the issues, we acknowledge she has the temperament to be commander-in-chief and leader of both a diverse nation and the free world.

But character matters. Her career-long struggles with honesty and ethics and calculating, self-serving approach to politics trouble us deeply.

Exactly.

A friend on another forum posted a chart showing the lies several of those wanting to be president have said, well no surprise my very left leaning buddy found one that had Hillary at almost 2 and Trump at 40+

It's not how many lies you tell, it's what you are lying about IMHO.

Think for a minute about what drives Trump and how he will handle national crisis.

Immediately after 911, he bragged "40 Wall Street was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan... And now it's the tallest".

Think about that for a minute. The WTC had just come down, emergency crews were still sifting through the rubble and what does he have to say? My tower is now the tallest building in in the area. Seriously??? Not only did that show a complete lack of compassion for the loss of life, it pointed out that all he cared about was bragging rights in the middle of a national crisis.

The reason he is so unprepared is because he has almost no attention span. He talks off the top of his head continually and says things that I think even surprise him. Then when he hears what he just said, he defends what he said and it becomes a new talking point. The effect makes me think of a chicken running around after its head is cut off. He is not just uninformed, he is not interested in being informed.

Trump is the poster child for BS, extreme exaggeration and made up excuses for everything he does.

If he is supposed to be good for business in this country, why have the Fortune 1000 abandoned him. If he is conservative, why is he being rejected by conservative newspapers and former GOP leaders.

People are ignoring everything about Trump that would make him a complete disaster as a president and the fact that he is completely unfit for this job.

The problem is that Trump supporters are characterized best by something Trump said this year. "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters,"

He is needy and insecure and acts out uncontrollably. He is surrounding himself with people who might be great on a reality show, but would have no business running this country. These people are far from the experts that some suggested he may rely on.

Trump is unfit for the job of president in so many obvious ways that it makes a mockery of what it takes to be president.

Mark,

For better or worse, it's apparent that those who support DT have a different perspective than you, I and others who find the above observations, quotes, etc. as disqualifying for consideration to be the next President.

Gordon

Understand your dislike for DT. I thought the News put it succinctly regarding Hillary.

But character matters. Her career-long struggles with honesty and ethics and calculating, self-serving approach to politics trouble us deeply.

How do you wrestle with that? I mean call it what it is. Haven't you seen this act before? Or are you proud to pull the lever and actually believe she didn't inhale as well. The Clintons made lying in vogue as public servants They are the poster children for 'if you don't get caught it's not a lie'. I can guarantee you this is why many steer clear of her.

timm,

It's not "dislike" per se. It's merely evaluating a persons qualifications based on their past words and deeds.

Yes, character absolutely matters and we all make a judgement as to what's relevant and what's not.

Being from Wyoming, my vote doesn't count anyway and I accepted that a long time ago. As a result, I really don't "struggle" with any of this.

Best,

Gordon

timm said:

Understand your dislike for DT. I thought the News put it succinctly regarding Hillary.

But character matters. Her career-long struggles with honesty and ethics and calculating, self-serving approach to politics trouble us deeply.

How do you wrestle with that? I mean call it what it is. Haven't you seen this act before? Or are you proud to pull the lever and actually believe she didn't inhale as well. The Clintons made lying in vogue as public servants They are the poster children for 'if you don't get caught it's not a lie'. I can guarantee you this is why many steer clear of her.

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I think the news got it right. They were endorsing Hillary even though they disagreed with her. They felt she was capable of being the president while Trump would be dangerous in that position. It seems like a very simple straightforward argument.

It comes down to having an adult for president who could command respect vs. an extremely immature, emotionally unstable, man baby.