Ethos owner to upgrade to pre/amp vs imp/exp 11a/13a

Hi everyone, my name is mike and I have been a Martin Logan fan since 2011 starting out first with the motion series 8/10/12 setup to now a ethos setup. I have had the ethos for about three years but I find that the tightness of the bass could be better along with the micro details.

I had the fortunate chance to audition the ethos/montis/impression 11a and the impressions left a solid impression(no pun intended).

Eventually my goal is to have dedicated pre/amp stereo system but it I will need to prioritize what I get first and therefore want the biggest impact drivers first. I also don't want to have a system that is relatively compromised in which I will be tempted to turnover gear.

Source:
Computer hdmi output
Xbox one S

Current setup:
-Denon 4520Ci
-Martin Logan ethos

Option a:
-Pre/amp setup from McIntosh to support the hdmi inputs from the computer and Xbox (want to stay at 10k if possible
-Martin Logan ethos

Option b:
-denon 4520ci
-Martin Logan impression 11a
-Martin Logan expression 13a

**note** I have a solid interest with McIntosh due to a AD being so close by and having the ability to demo equipment.

Are you using the HDMI for both audio and video? Two channel only or are you using this for multi channel home theater? I think the only Mac gear that supports HDMI are their multi channel home theater processors and receivers.

jtucker said:

Are you using the HDMI for both audio and video? Two channel only or are you using this for multi channel home theater? I think the only Mac gear that supports HDMI are their multi channel home theater processors and receivers.

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I am using HDMI for both audio and video for a 2 channel system. You bring up a good point about limited HDMI support for MAC gear. I was given wrong information by a sales rep at Magnolia that all MAC gear has HDMI inputs

After doing a few more auditions since initially posting this thread, I have narrowed my direction to the replacement of the speakers first with either the Montis, Impression 11A, or the Expression 13A with respect to limiting the potential chase for audio Nirvana. I am looking at the rough ball park of spending +3.5k to upgrade to the Montis and the costs go up from there with the other models. The only caveat is that I have not been able to audition the Expression 13A's yet.

Anyone audition or have some good listening time with these speakers be able to provide some feedback?

Based on my recent experience you should be able to sell your Ethos and add $3.5k to get Montis. With tax and shipping I upgraded for a little less. Not sure what your local Magnolia will discount to. Mine wanted to sell me floor demo Summit X for about $8300, so if the had demo Montis you might get a similar discount.

mkim90k said:

... Anyone audition or have some good listening time with these speakers be able to provide some feedback?

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I just upgraded from the legacy Summits to the Expressions. As I've mentioned on another thread, the improvement is primarily in the bass integration, plus a slightly wider and deeper soundstage. If your system will also be used for Home Theater, you might consider getting the Montis plus a BalancedForce 210 sub (vs. only the Impression or Expression). That gives you a bit more flexibility, as you can use the sub for both 2 channel AND Home Theater, and tweak sub placement for optimal bass. I highly recommend talking to Shawn/DaVinci Media. He's fantastic to work with, and I believe he's still got some Montis left (in black ash).

sleepysurf said:

I just upgraded from the legacy Summits to the Expressions. As I've mentioned on another thread, the improvement is primarily in the bass integration, plus a slightly wider and deeper soundstage. If your system will also be used for Home Theater, you might consider getting the Montis plus a BalancedForce 210 sub (vs. only the Impression or Expression). That gives you a bit more flexibility, as you can use the sub for both 2 channel AND Home Theater, and tweak sub placement for optimal bass. I highly recommend talking to Shawn/DaVinci Media. He's fantastic to work with, and I believe he's still got some Montis left (in black ash).

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Question... Did you also by any chance demo the 11A Impressions or did you simply go straight to the 13A's? I wish my dealer nearby had 13A's to demo, but they do not have them yet so I am only able to guess based on hearing the 11A and the 15A which is so inconceivable of a difference.

I did not have a chance to audition the Impressions, only the Expressions and Renaissance (the latter ruled out based on size). The Impressions are essentially the Montis replacement, albeit with dual woofers. The Expression is the Summit X replacement, with slightly larger panels. Depending upon price, the Montis plus BF210 might still be a better value, and more versatile than the Impressions alone. However, we're comparing apples to oranges, so ultimately depends on your room acoustics and personal preference.

After hours upon hours of debating I have been able to finally narrow down my selection down to the Masterpiece series only. The main reasons for this are because of the ARC tech, larger stat panels. Based on the loads of reviews, there seemed to be a lot of conflicting opinions with whether the summit X is superior than the Montis aside from the lower crossovers, and just feel the Montis is more of a step forward than a leap in change. After talking over with the wife, she is opposed to having subs as it detracts from the room.

With that said, I am now set on using my Denon as a pre/amp(intention of upgrade the preamp later), Prima Luna HD stereo tube amp, and either the 11a or 13a. My local dealer has no 13a's to demo unfortunately. I like the larger panel in theory with the 13a's with the and after some of the discounts the difference will be 4k or less between the two. Thoughts? The last thing I want to do is to get the itch to upgrade again in the near future while balancing the opportunity costs of these "fun" widgets in life.

Summary of Options:
11a + Prima Pre amp + Prima Luna HD Tube Amp
-vs-
13a + Denon as pre amp + Prima Luna HD Tube Amp

My vote is to go with option 2 for the larger panels + deeper bass of the 13a. You can "incrementally" upgrade to the Prima (or some other tubed) pre-amp at a later date.
Do you have any option to audition the 13a before plunking down your hard-earned money for these 'fun widgets'? $10-15K is quite a chunk to go without informed decisions. If you get the Impressions without auditioning the 13a, would you feel that you've just 'settled' with a $10k product without knowing about the 13a? On the other hand, plunking down $15k and not be happy with the 13a once you get them home is not fun either. If I were in your position, I would insist on auditioning the 13a before committing.

Best of luck,
Spike

If you are definitely averse to adding a sub, then go with the Expression 13A's, to avoid future buyers remorse! The ARC capability is well worth it. However, room acoustics still play a major role. In my case, even with ARC, I still have a residual null at ~60 Hz right at my sweet spot, and no other placement options for the speakers or listening position. That being the case, I will still use one (if not both) subs to "fill in" the null and smooth the bass response elsewhere in the room. Regardless, the bass from the Expressions (after ARC) is much tighter and more seamlessly integrated with the panel, than I ever had with my Summits.

I'm not familiar with the specs of the Prima Luna amp, but if it can handle low impedance, I'm sure it would be sweet sounding. The Denon will likely work just fine as a Pre, until you decide if/when to upgrade further.

I have a different proposition.

Buy ML Impression and PrimaLuna preamp. For the same price as Tube power amp a better purchase would be the Sanders ESL Mark II power amp.

Using the tube power amp high frequencies may be rolled of since 11A is 0.6 ohms at 20 kHz.
The Mark II is designed to be able to drive 0.5 ohms resistance electrostatic panel.

Before purchasing please make sure chosen Tube preamp matches with solid state power amp.

Though I have not listened to ML 11A. It has two aluminum woofers each powered by a 275 watt amp in a sealed enclosure. Not bass reflex but acoustic suspension bass design. I do not think 11A will short change you as far as bass is concerned.

ML Expression may have better bass but is additional $5000.

Just my subjective opinion that Mark II may provide you with greater enjoyment by reproducing highs much better than Tube power amp.

Have fun listening to music!

Excellent feedback! It's wonderful to read all these wide array of perspectives. I will definitely need to call around locally to find a 13a and 11a to demo side by side.

As far as the amp goes the thing I like about the sanders is their demo period as it would be able to provide the best experience so may keep my eyes open for that.

In a strange twist to all this I was given a cannot pass opportunity on a pair of summit X's. so stoked! Appreciated everyone's very insightful feedback.

So what was your "cannot pass" deal?

jtucker said:

So what was your "cannot pass" deal?

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Pm'd

my new setup:
-denon 4520ci as preamp
-sanders ESLii stereo amp
- summit x