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Peter Soderberg

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Hello all,
I just picked up a pair of Neolith from Jeff Dorgay's of Tone Pub and am taking a detour to my dealer, Evolution Audio in Agoura Hills before they have to head back to the home planet.
Anyone interested, I am unpacking them Tuesday and will be there Friday if anyone wants to come by. They will be there for about 2 weeks. Feel free to call Evolution at 818 879 1312. They are at 5341 Derry Ave, Suite S, Agoura Hills, CA 91301.
 
The panels on Neoliths resemble the original CLSs to a certain extent -- comparable size, looks... I suspect with a 30 year gap between them, there must be differences, are there?

The CLSs always felt a bit cottage industry made: double stick foam, generally a non-robust construction for something whose main purpose is to vibrate!

Are there improvements in the way the Neolith panels are put together? Any construction techniques or details that can be gleaned which would be useful in rebuilding the CLSs?
 
Toptip said:
The panels on Neoliths resemble the original CLSs to a certain extent -- comparable size, looks... I suspect with a 30 year gap between them, there must be differences, are there?

The CLSs always felt a bit cottage industry made: double stick foam, generally a non-robust construction for something whose main purpose is to vibrate!

Are there improvements in the way the Neolith panels are put together? Any construction techniques or details that can be gleaned which would be useful in rebuilding the CLSs?
Click to expand...

OMG, you can not be serious with that post ....... can you ?
 
Toptip said:
The panels on Neoliths resemble the original CLSs to a certain extent -- comparable size, looks... I suspect with a 30 year gap between them, there must be differences, are there?

The CLSs always felt a bit cottage industry made: double stick foam, generally a non-robust construction for something whose main purpose is to vibrate!

Are there improvements in the way the Neolith panels are put together? Any construction techniques or details that can be gleaned which would be useful in rebuilding the CLSs?
Click to expand...
Since around 2003 with the clear spar Gen2 panels, ML's are much improved for longevity, resistance to dirt buildup, holding together, etc.
 
OK, thanks to the last two respondents. I actually looked through the site and as well as Martin Logan's own site, especially the factory tour pages. But seeing the second picture under "panels" here:

http://www.martinlogan.com/learn/tour-martinlogan.php

They are still using double stick foam, which surprises me. I also read that they have improved the conductive / resistive layer deposit that reduces arcing.

I am just wondering if the panels had spars made out of a hard material and the stators joined together with some sort of non conductive connectors, like nylon screws and nuts, whether the final "sandwich" would be more robust, less prone to buzzing and other problems.
 
Brad225 said:
If you are serious try using your search button first then ask more specific questions.
Click to expand...

I will. Would there be an entry for what inadequacy someone is compensating when he calls people he does not know "trolls?"
 
To those who are involved. Please stop. This site doesn't need this kind of trash talk.
 
hmmm.. let me try to rephrase this question...... Given the new tech seen on the Neolith...... are there any possible tweaks that can be possibly learned to actually improve the performance of the CLS or any other older model from that vintage without a total rip-up? :) Not to make them 'like Neolith' - but something to possibly get an improvement out of the existing package... Maybe something simple. My guess is that a handful or less have actually seen or heard the Neolith on this site to actually see the construction in person.... Hard to find, out of just about everyone's price range, and might be found at shows or on a traveling boondoggle.... haha.....

Certainly... anyone can google..... or search the site.... to try to find something or other.... but jeez... what are you humanoids for anyway? If you have nothing to share.... then share nothing.
 
Toptip said:
OK, thanks to the last two respondents. I actually looked through the site and as well as Martin Logan's own site, especially the factory tour pages. But seeing the second picture under "panels" here:

http://www.martinlogan.com/learn/tour-martinlogan.php

They are still using double stick foam, which surprises me. I also read that they have improved the conductive / resistive layer deposit that reduces arcing.

I am just wondering if the panels had spars made out of a hard material and the stators joined together with some sort of non conductive connectors, like nylon screws and nuts, whether the final "sandwich" would be more robust, less prone to buzzing and other problems.
Click to expand...

The tape you're seeing in that picture is not double-sided foam.
Since 2003, ML ESL's use rigid spacers (spars) and proper adhesives, so that should not be a worry. Bring your magnifier and examine a newer pair of ML's...
 
I am intrigued by the vapor depositing of the conductive / resistive material. If it is indeed done properly, it may eliminate some hot spots for arcing and allow a slightly higher voltage to be used. Given the quasi-logarythmic nature of our hearing, that may not mean much of course.

I just bought a replacement panel for EM-ESL. Hopefully that will have clues as to new construction techniques, hard spars and so forth. May be one day replacement panels for the Neoliths will be available for sale (are they already?) and I can experiment a bit more.
 
Hi Toptip,

What exactly are you trying to determine?

Having owned four different models in some 25 years, arcing is simply not an issue with the current models unless you drive them to insane levels and even then, you may not see anything. I did make one of the panels arc on my CLS2's (bass segment) but that was many years ago.

I suspect what you may want are "trade secrets" that are not available to the public.

GG
 
Gordon Gray said:
Hi Toptip,

What exactly are you trying to determine?

Having owned four different models in some 25 years, arcing is simply not an issue with the current models unless you drive them to insane levels and even then, you may not see anything. I did make one of the panels arc on my CLS2's (bass segment) but that was many years ago.

I suspect what you may want are "trade secrets" that are not available to the public.

GG
Click to expand...

I have two pairs of CLS IIs. One pair is in good operating shape. The second one which I bought used, works fine but only after I built a plastic frame to hold the front and back stators firmly together, they were separating at the time of purchase. One day I will rebuild them because I cannot buy what I want, an ESL that has a brushed nickel look. To that end, I want to sand the front to bare metal and refinish with a clear coat, which will work better in my living room.

This will be a lot of effort and in rebuilding, I would like to use as much newer technology as possible. For instance the double stick foam is obviously not a good way to go. A more rigorous connecting scheme will probably make the panels rattle less, make them less prone to separation, etc.

I am less of an audiophile and more of an experimenter. That is all.
 
Toptip said:
I am less of an audiophile and more of an experimenter. That is all.
Click to expand...

You should present your goals in the exotic section of diyaudio.com, where you're more likely to be received differently.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/

I would like to see your living room and meet the person who would prefer two polished nickel tombstones over the typical subdued black ones! Fabio, is that you? http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?13814-Fabio-s-System-1995
 
I would like to see your living room and meet the person who would prefer two polished nickel tombstones over the typical subdued black ones! Fabio, is that you? http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?13814-Fabio-s-System-1995[/QUOTE]

OK, funny, but your closing question does not really follow: looking at the pictures Fabio in fact appears to prefer everything in black. I am the opposite of that and often wonder why so much new audio has, alternatively, such boyracer or Terminator 2 esthetics.
 
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